STEMTalks Archive

Episode 99 : Dave Rabin talks about how psychedelics and wearable devices can help improve people’s lives

Dr. David Rabin is the chief innovation officer and co-founder of Apollo Neuroscience. He also is the co-inventor of Apollo, a wearable device designed to improve focus, sleep and access to meditative states by gently delivering layered vibrations to the skin.

Dave is a board-certified psychiatrist and translational neuroscientist who for the past decade has been studying resilience and the impact of chronic stress on humans. He received his MD in medicine and Ph.D. in neuroscience from Albany Medical College in Albany, New York. He trained in psychiatry at Western Psychiatric Institute and Clinic at the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center.

Dave also has organized the world’s largest controlled study of psychedelic medicines and is well-known for his research into MDMA and its potential to treat posttraumatic stress disorder along with other disorders.

Show notes

[00:03:06] Dawn opens the interview mentioning that David grew up in California and asking him about an insatiable need he had as a child to understand why people were the way that they were.

[00:04:18] David talks about how the vivid and frequent dreams he had as a child played a role in his decision to study consciousness and neuroscience.

[00:07:33] Dawn mentions that in high school Dave told his father that he wanted to study consciousness; however, Dave’s father suggested that he study something more tangible and quantifiable instead. Dave explains how this led him to spend the summer between his junior and senior year of high school at Rockefeller University.

[00:12:08] Ken asks why Dave decided to move across the country to Albany Medical College, where he received his MD in medicine and Ph.D. in Neuroscience.

[00:14:01] Dave gives an overview of the research he did, while working on his Ph.D., in emotional salience and how people interpret different stimuli as either threatening or safe. An area of research informed by his reading of evolutionary psychology, and the study of touch as an evolutionarily conserved stimulator of the safety pathway.

[00:17:58] Ken asks about how Dave decided to go into psychiatry at Western Psychiatric Institute and Clinic at the University of Pittsburg Medical Center, where he focused on treatment-resistant mental illnesses.

[00:20:47] Dawn mentions Dave’s work with Greg Siegel. Dawn asks about this work and how it led Dave to become serious about studying consciousness, altered states of consciousness, and the potential use of these altered states to facilitate healing.

[00:24:26] Ken talks about MDMA, or 3,4-Methylenedioxymethamphetamine, a psychoactive drug commonly known as ecstasy or molly. He explains that MDMA has been shown to facilitate the release of oxytocin, which increases levels of empathy and closeness while dampening fear-related amygdala activity. This results in an overall decrease in stress response and social anxiety. Ken asks Dave to talk about MDMA’s potential to treat PTSD (posttraumatic stress disorder) along with other disorders.

[00:27:37] Ken asks if Dave has seen any improvements in heart rate variability (HRV) post MDMA treatments.

[00:28:37] Dawn mentions that Dave is part of the world’s largest controlled study of psychedelic medicines. She goes on to explain that these medicines, like LSD and MDMA and even psilocybin, which comes from mushrooms, were used to treat mental and emotional trauma from the 1950s to the ‘70s. Due to the abuses that occurred during this time, the use as well as research on psychedelic medicines in U.S. were shut down. With a shift towards a renewed interest in these medicines, Dawn asks about this study and if Dave could give a background on psychedelic medicine.

[00:32:34] Dave talks about the epigenetic trial, being conducted in phase three of the MDMA study, where DNA samples are collected before and after use, to determine the epigenetic regulation of stress-response genes.

[00:41:30] Ken asks about psilocybin, which is a naturally occurring psychedelic produced by more than 200 species of mushrooms. Ken asks Dave to explain how psilocybin is different from MDMA, both chemically and experientially.

[00:45:45] Dave discusses the use of ecstasy and the debate around the safety of MDMA, and how compared to stimulants such as cocaine, amphetamine and methamphetamine, addiction to MDMA is very rare.

[00:48:47] Dawn explains that psychedelics are, to this day, illegal in the U.S., and further states that STEM-Talk is not advocating the use of these or any illegal substances, before asking Dave about the changing legal status of psychedelics.

[00:49:51] Dawn asks about the use of cannabidiol (CBD) for management of symptoms for illnesses such as PTSD and pain-management.

[00:54:17] Ken mentions that Dave has spent the last several years developing a technology called Apollo, which is intended to help people make changes more effectively. Given the research and study Dave has done into stress, meditation and athletic performance, and why some people are more resilient than others, Ken asks Dave what he has learned from all this and how it led to the Apollo technology.

[00:57:31] Ken asks if the hypervigilance people have to text alerts and emails and phone vibrations and news alerts and the constant bombardment of noise and stimuli is conditioning our bodies to be in a hyper-stressed state all the time.

[00:59:26] Ken asks how to retrain the nervous system to become more balanced between our sympathetic and parasympathetic symptoms without the use of psychedelics.

[01:02:37] Dawn asks about cognitive patterns and the way people think about their lives, such as the tendency to take challenges personally and think “why me?” while others tend to see challenges as an opportunity for growth.

[01:05:35] Dave talks about heart-rate variability (HRV) and why he considers it one of the more important findings about resilience that has been made in the past 15 years.

[01:09:19] Dawn asks what a good range for HRV is, or if there is a significant degree of variation across healthy people.

[01:10:31] Dave explains the Apollo wearable device in depth, and how and why it works.

[01:11:57] Ken asks if there have been pilot studies with children for the Apollo device.

[01:14:14] Dawn mentions that Dave’s wife Kathryn was the one who came up with the idea to create the company Apollo Neuroscience. Dave tells the story behind that.

[01:15:37] Ken mentions that David and Kathryn are in in the process of launching Apollo, and that the devices will start shipping in January.

[01:15:50] Dawn asks, given Dave’s study of stress and the pervasiveness of technology in our modern world and its role in our levels of stress, how he deals with stress on a day-to-day basis.

[01:18:12] Dawn mentions that Dave went to work for his wife this last year and asks, aside from their working relationship, what the two of them do for fun.

Links:

Dave Rabin bio

Austad’s University of Alabama, Birmingham bio

Episode 98: Steven Austad talks about aging and preserving human health

Our guest today is Dr. Steven Austad who studies virtually every aspect of aging. He is a distinguished professor and chair of the Department of Biology at the University of Alabama, Birmingham.

In addition to being recognized for his aging and longevity research, Steve is also well-known for his background as a New York City cab driver, newspaper reporter and a lion trainer who then decided to become a biologist.

His research today involves developing lifestyle and pharmacological approaches to improving and preserving human health. He is particularly focused on figuring out why different species age at different rates.

Steve is the author of more than 190 scientific articles. His book, “Why We Age: What Science Is Discovering about the Body’s Journey Through Life,” has been translated into nine languages. He also writes newspaper columns and has written for publications like Natural History magazine, Scientific American and International Wildlife.

Show notes:

[00:02:53] Dawn opens the interview mentioning that Steve was born in Southern California, but that his family moved around so much, that he ended up attending around 20 grade schools. Steve explains that his father bought a travel trailer and moved the family around the country.

[00:03:57] Steve talks about how even though he was shy and introverted as a kid, he found a way to fit in with his classmates.

[00:04:40] Ken mentions how Steve’s career went through several reinventions before settling into a career in science. Among the various occupations Steve had were: a newspaper reporter, training lions and tigers for television and movies, and taxi driving. Ken asks Steve how he became a taxi driver.

[00:06:01] Steve talks about his time on the West Coast in Portland working as a newspaper reporter for the Oregonian.

[00:07:48] Dawn asks how it was that Tippi Hedren and Melanie Griffith had something to do with Steve becoming a lion trainer.

[00:14:39] Ken asks Steve about the suicidal duck whose reckless abandonment nearly resulted in Steve’s death at the hands of one of the lions he was training.

[00:19:21] Steve discusses why his fascination with animal behavior lead him to California State University to major in biology.

[00:23:24] Dawn asks what took Steve to the University of New Mexico for his postdoc.

[00:28:16] Ken asks how Steve landed his job as assistant professor in the Department of Organismic and Evolutionary Biology at Harvard University in 1986.

[00:29:59] Dawn mentions that Steve discovered that opossums of the predator-free barrier island of Sapelo Island lived 25 percent longer than their cousins on the mainland of Georgia. Steve discusses this and explains how this discovery played a role in his future research.

[00:34:13] Dawn points out that Steve left Harvard for the University of Idaho where he became a full professor and then next went the University of Texas. Dawn asks Steve about accepting a position in 2014 at the University of Alabama, Birmingham.

[00:41:32] Steve discusses his research into lifespan and healthspan and longevity and why some species age at different rates, with a particular interest in long-lived organisms like quahogs clams and hydra. He goes on to explain how this research led to what he refers to as the “Longevity Quotient.”

[00:48:42] Ken mentions that as a former Rhode Islander, he spent some time digging Quahogs and eating them.

[00:53:14] Steve gives an overview of how dietary restriction studies are performed on mice.

[00:59:39] Ken mentions that from Steve’s description it seems that modern humans are becoming more and more like laboratory mice.

[01:02:53] Ken mentions STEM-Talk episode 79 where Satchin Panda talks about time-restricted eating, and episode 7 where Mark Matson talks about intermittent fasting. Ken goes on to say that Mark made the point that the benefits of time-restricted eating or intermittent fasting is that it puts the organism, particularly the human, in a state of ketosis.

[01:04:09] Steve talks about the differences in the maximum lifespans of males and females in both humans and other animals.

[01:08:42] Ken recommends STEM-Talk episode 67 with Doug Wallace for listeners interested in hearing more about mitochondria.

[01:09:44] Dawn asks about metformin, which is a drug that many people believe has the potential to increase our healthspan and lifespan. She asks why it is that we’re not all taking metformin and if it really has such potential. She further asks about the status of the Targeting Aging With Metformin (TAME) trial.

[01:13:39] Ken mentions a recent study coming from the Miller lab, that suggested metformin might inhibit mitochondrial adaptations to exercise in older adults. He goes on to mention an even more recent paper out of the University of Kentucky and the University of Alabama, Birmingham has reported that metformin blunts muscle hypertrophy in response to resistance exercise training in older adults. Ken also mentions Steve’s continued interest in rapamycin and its effect on the health span of animals. Ken asks what Steve has learned and if rapamycin would still be his first choice for testing for a drug to target aging.

[01:20:08] Ken asks about the optimal and most efficacious dose of rapamycin for humans.

[01:21:10] Dawn mentions a paper Steve co-authored with Tuck Finch, discussing the role of the different APOE isoforms. Dawn asks about the ancestral isoform and why we see different isoform distributions today compared to hundreds of thousands of years ago.

[01:24:59] Dawna asks why we see different isoform distributions between different populations around the globe.

[01:26:29] Dawn asks how much of a role lifestyle versus genetics plays in healthspan and lifespan.

[01:28:58] Steve talks about of Fauja Singh, who is 108 and didn’t start distance running until he was in his 80s, and who ran a marathon when he was 101.

[01:32:17] Ken asks if Steve is still as confident as he was in 2016 when he made a bet with Olshansky over whether there will be one or more 150-year-old human by the year 2150.

[01:34:15] Ken asks why we haven’t seen someone exceed Jeanne Calment’s record age of 122 years that she reached in 1997.

[01:36:04] Dawn mentions that Steve continues to write articles and columns for newspapers as well as other news outlets. In addition to this Steve also has a website called, “Let’s Talk Science?” where an assortment of his newspaper columns and other writings can be found.

[01:37:47] Dawn closes the interview suggesting that Steve might want to explore writing a novel about a young newspaper reporter who ends up driving a Mercedes across California with a lion in the backseat, who then finds himself in a Hollywood mansion living with Tippi Hedrin and Melanie Griffin and watching over the lions and cheetahs that run through the house. Dawn suggests that has the makings of a good book.

Links:

Let’s Talk Science

Francesca Rossi IBM bio

Episode 97: Francesca Rossi talks about AI ethics and the development of new AI systems

Our guest today is Francesca Rossi, who for the past three years has been an AI Ethics Global Leader at IBM Research as well as an IBM Distinguished Research Staff Member. Prior to her time at IBM, she was a professor of computer science at the University of Padova, Italy.

Francesca’s AI research interests include constraint reasoning, preferences, multi-agent systems, computational social choice, and collective decision making. Much of her research today is focused on the future of artificial intelligence and the ethical issues surrounding the development and behavior of AI systems.

She is a fellow of both the worldwide association of AI (AAAI) and of the European Association of AI. She also has been president of the International Joint Conference on AI and the editor in chief of the Journal of AI Research.

Sitting in for Dawn during today’s interview is IHMC colleague Brent Venable, who recently was named the inaugural director of a new Ph.D. program in Intelligent Systems and Robotics that is a partnership between IHMC and the University of West Florida.

Brent is a graduate of the University of Padova and had Francesca as her academic advisor.

Show notes:

[00:03:25] Brent opens the interview asking Francesca where she grew up in Italy.

[00:03:51] Brent mentions that Francesca was a curious child, who was fascinated with the moon landing. Brent asks what else Francesca was interested in as a child.

[00:05:01] Francesca explains that if she were to stumble across a time machine she would be interested in going forward in time rather than backwards.

[00:05:41] Ken asks why Francesca decided to study computer science in 1981when the field was relatively new.

[00:07:22] Francesca discusses the one class in her academic career that stumped her, despite her good grades in every other subject.

[00:08:36] Ken mentions that Francesca ended up in Austin, Texas after obtaining her degree in computer science, and asks what it was that lead her to the University of Texas and what research she did there.

[00:11:40] Brent asks why Francesca decided to go back to Pisa after Texas to work on her Ph.D.

[00:13:23] Brent mentions that after Francesca’s Ph.D., she moved to the University of Padova, where she worked for the next 20 years. Brent asks about the work that Francesca did in this period, particularly her seminal work on preferences for intelligent systems.

[00:15:17] Ken discusses how Francesca became Brent’s academic advisor at Padova. Ken mentions that he has heard that the two of them had so much fun working together, that they did as much laughing as research during their time at Padova. He asks the two of them if that could possibly be true.

[00:17:41] Francesca talks about the sabbatical she took to the Radcliff Institute.

[00:22:00] Brent asks about an article in the Wall Street Journal that featured Francesca as well as a senior manager at IBM and one of the founders of Skype and how the article played a role in Francesca’s decision to move to the United States.

[00:23:41] Francesca’s title at IBM is “Global Ethics Leader.” Brent asks Francesca to describe what the job entails.

[00:30:00] Ken asks what Francesca envisions as the likely future of AI, and what she hopes for the future of AI.

[00:31:54] Francesca discusses how we sometimes craft our visions for the future around our current technology, and that she believes that the proper approach should be to build our technologies around our visions for the future.

[00:34:37] Brent asks Francesca for her thoughts on whether or not the fear of robots and AI going rogue and hurting people is a legitimate one, and what she thinks about the government adopting AI legislation.

[00:38:23] Francesca gives her thoughts on the fears that AI will one day replace human workers.

[00:41:43] Brent mentions that Matt Johnson, interviewed on episode 86 of STEM-Talk, had an article in AI magazine where he discussed human machine teaming, and said that humans and AI should work together the way two musicians do when playing a duet.

[00:44:11] Ken asks about the current predominance of machine learning as opposed to traditional AI, otherwise known as symbolic AI, and if the area of preferences that Francesca has pioneered could be a potential candidate for bringing these two areas of AI together.

[00:47:55] Brent asks if we ever decided to one day replace a judge with a deep learning algorithm, would AI be prone to discrimination based on the dataset that the deep-learning algorithm has been given to learn from.

[00:52:35] Ken asks if there are ways to hold the people and the companies that design intelligent systems accountable for the decisions that they make?

[00:55:29] Ken mentions that tech companies often shift blame to algorithms for mistakes that were a fault of humans whether intentional or unintentional. He asks about the growing concern of biases both consciously and unconsciously being imbedded into algorithms by the humans who make them.

[01:00:34] In ascribing values to intelligent machines to abide by, Ken asks whose values should be used, as different cultures have different values as well as different ethical codes of conduct.

[01:04:42] Brent asks about Francesca’s involvement with The Future of Life Institute, which leads Francesca to discuss Max Tegmark’s book “Life 3.0.”

[01:08:11] Brent asks about another initiative Francesca is involved in called Partnership for AI.

[01:10:52] Ken mentions that Francesca is the conference chair for the 34^th Annual AAAI Conference on Artificial Intelligence, which will take place in New York City in February. Ken asks what the submissions currently look like and also to talk about the health of the field.

[01:13:49] Brent asks what Francesca does with her spare time.

[01:15:11] Ken asks Francesca why he was told to reassure her that the STEM-Talk staff would use a photograph of her and not a photograph of “The Terminator” on the STEM-Talk home page next to her episode.

Links:

“The Vertical Farm: Feeding the World in the 21^stCentury”

Episode 96: Dick Despommier discusses vertical farming and fly fishing

Today we have part two of our interview with Dr. Dickson Despommier, a microbiologist and ecologist who is the emeritus professor of public and environmental health at Columbia University.

Today’s episode focuses on vertical farming, a concept that Dick and his students came up with in 1999. When Dick’s book “Vertical Farms: Feeding the World in the 21^st Century” came out in 2010, there were no vertical farms in the world. Today, there are vertical farms throughout the U.S. and around the globe.

Part one of our interview, episode 95, covered Dick’s nearly 30 years of research into intracellular parasitism and his focus on Trichinella spiralis, one of the world’s largest intracellular parasites.

Dick is the author of five books, including “People, Parasites and Plowshares.” His most recent book, “Waist Deep in Water,” is a memoir of his life-long love of fly fishing, a topic we had so much fun discussing with Dick that we touch on it in today’s episode as well as in part one of our interview with Dick.

Show notes:

[00:02:08] Ken opens part two of our interview with Dick by pointing out that there were no vertical farms in the world when Dick’s book “The Vertical Farm: Feeding the World in the 21^stCentury”came out in 2010. Ken asks Dick to give an overview of the idea behind vertical farms and also discuss how the idea gained momentum.

[00:06:33} Dick explains how the students’ original concept of rooftop gardens evolved into the idea of growing plants inside buildings.

[00:08:14] Dick talks about the growth of vertical farming since 2011 and how Japan is the country that has the highest number of vertical farms.

[00:09:26] Ken describes a vertical farm located in the heart of Jackson Hole, Wyo., called Vertical Harvest. It’s a 13,500 square-foot green house that can grow produce that is equivalent to 10 acers of traditional farming. This vertical farm sells produce year-round, mostly to local restaurants and grocery stores, but also to individuals who want to go onsite to buy their produce directly. Ken asks if this is a good example of what Dick was hoping for when he conceived of the idea of a vertical farm.

[00:13:16] Ken asks Dick to address the criticisms of vertical farming and how the cost of building these structures outweighs the advantages.

[00:17:14] Dawn points out that Dick was named teacher of the year eight times during his time at Columbia and asks him for his thoughts about what it takes to become a good science teacher.

[00:19:49] Dawn asks about Dickson’s recently published memoir about his love affair with fly fishing, titled “Waist Deep in Water.”

[00:20:39] Dick talks about the literature professor that “Waist Deep” is dedicated to and how the professor inspired Dick to start writing.

[00:22:07] Dickson tells the story of how he caught his first trout.

[00:29:04] Ken ends the interview by asking about Dick’s favorite Shakespeare quote that Dick says gets to the heart of what really matters in life.

Links:

Dickson Despommier bio

https://www.verticalharvestjackson.com/our-mission

“People, Parasites and Plowshares: Learning From Our Body’s Most Terrifying Invaders”

The Living River website

“Waist Deep in Water”

“The Vertical Farm: Feeding the World in the 21^stCentury”

Episode 95: Dickson Despommier talks about 30 years of research into intracellular parasitism

Our guest today is Dr. Dickson Despommier, a microbiologist and ecologist who is the emeritus professor of Public and Environmental Heath at Columbia University. Our conversation with Dick covered a variety of topics and ran so long that we divided his interview into two parts.

Part one covers the nearly 30 years Dick spent conducting research on intracellular parasitism, especially Trichinella spiralis, one of the world’s largest intracellular parasites.

Part two of our interview with Dick focuses on vertical farming. In 1999, Dick and his students came up with the idea of raising crops in tall buildings. When his book, “The Vertical Farm: Feeding the World in the 21^stCentury,” came out in 2010, there were no vertical farms in the world. Today, there are commercial vertical farms not only throughout the United States, but also in Korea, Japan, China, England, Scotland, The Netherlands, France, Russia, Dubai, Canada and a host of other countries.

Dick is the author of five books, including “People, Parasites and Plowshares.” His most recent book, “Waist Deep in Water,” is a memoir of his life-long love of fly fishing, a topic we had so much fun discussing that we touch on it in part one and part two of our interview with Dick.

Show notes:

[00:03:40] Ken begins the interview by mentioning that he and Dawn are great fans of two podcasts that Dick helps co-host, “This Week in Parasitism”and “This Week in Virology.” Ken points out that “This Week in Virology” launched in 2008, making Dick an early adapter of science-based podcasting. Ken asks Dick how he got involved in podcasting.

[00:06:24] Dawn mentions that Dick was born in New Orleans, and that his parents moved across the country to San Francisco when he was only a year old. Dawn goes on to mention that as a kid Dick liked to play outdoors and collect pollywogs and dragonflies. Dick talks about how his mother encouraged him to bring home spiders and frogs and other specimens he collected on his outdoor adventures.

[00:07:14] Ken mentions that when Dick was 11 his family moved again to New Jersey, asking how that came about.

[00:09:06] Dawn asks about the beginning of Dick’s lifelong love of fishing that started when he was a child.

[00:11:54] After Dick talks about recently spending 20 days in Wyoming, Ken and Dick begin a conversation about their favorite rivers in the state to go fishing.

[00:13:57] Ken and Dick talk about their fishing bait of choice when they were kids: Wonder Bread. Ken goes on to ask Dick how his love of fishing also evolved into an interest and fascination with wading into creeks, streams and river beds.

[00:14:56] Dick talks about his website “The Living River.”

[00:16:39] Dawn asks about Dick’s experience with his high school biology teacher who recognized his curiosity and who played a pivotal role in shaping Dick’s scientific career.

[00:20:26] Dawn mentions that Dick almost didn’t go to college, but that he eventually jumped in academics bigtime and earned a bachelor’s degree at Fairleigh, a master’s at Columbia, and his doctorate at Notre Dame.

[00:22:29] Dawn asks about Dick’s experience during his postdoc at Rockefeller University where there were 12 Nobel prize winners who would sit down with him and ask questions about his research.

[00:23:54] Ken asks Dick about his decision to return to Columbia after his postdoc.

[00:27:00] Ken mentions that Dick’s experience at Rockefeller cemented his approach to teaching. Ken asks Dick to talk about how when he returned to Columbia that he became as equally engaged in teaching as he was in research.

[00:30:18] Dawn asks Dick about his extensive research into the parasite Trichinella spiralis, something Dick has described as “the worm that would be a virus.”

[00:38:09] Dawn asks about Dick’s 1998 article for Parasitology Todayabout the Nurse Cell-Parasite complex of Trichinella spiralis, and how it is unlike anything else in nature.

[00:47:19] Ken mentions that Emma Wilson, a researcher who has spent more than 15 years studying Toxoplasma gondii, was the guest on episode 93 of STEM-Talk. Ken asks Dick to discuss what is special about T. gondii.

[00:51:28] Ken mentions that just recently researchers at the University of Wisconsin Madison have discovered why cats are the definitive host for Toxoplasma gondii.

[00:55:33] Dawn asks about Dickson’s interest and research into ecotones, or the transition area between two biomes, a zone of high disease transmission that leads to the spread of schistosomiasis malaria and a variety of parasitic worms.

[01:00:03] Ken asks about the prevalence of hookworm in the South following the Civil War and how eradicating it helped revive the Southern economy.

[01:06:47] Ken points out that John D. Rockefeller and others thought they had noticed a certain malaise among many in the American South in the years after the war. Rockefeller put together a commission that was comprised of luminaries across many disciplines who examined possible causes ranging from spiritual to social to psychological to medical. Ken asks Dick to elaborate on this interesting episode and explain how it was connected to Italian tunnel workers?

[01:13:56] Ken ends part one of the interview with a humorous story about how he dug through solid rock to build his family’s outhouse in Maine.

Links:

Dickson Despommier bio

“People, Parasites and Plowshares: Learning From Our Body’s Most Terrifying Invaders”

“Waist Deep in Water”

John Newman ResearchGate profile

Episode 94: John Newman discusses how the ketogenic diet and fasting regulate the genes and pathways that control aging

Our guest today is Dr. John Newman, a geriatrician and researcher who is well-known for a 2017 study that found a ketogenic diet reduced the mid-life mortality of aging mice while also improving their memory and healthspan.

John is an assistant professor at the Buck Institute for Research on Aging and a geriatrician in the Division of Geriatrics at the University of California, San Francisco. He also is a physician who works with older adults in the San Francisco VA Medical Center.

At Buck, John studies the molecular details of how diet and fasting regulate the genes and pathways that control aging. He particularly focuses on the ketone body beta-hydroxybutyrate and how its molecular signaling activities involving epigenetics and inflammation regulate aging and memory in mice.

Show notes:

[00:02:51] Dawn opens the interview asking John what it was like growing up in Long Island.

[00:04:20] Dawn mentions that John was described as a pretty geeky kid growing up, and asks him about his childhood.

[00:05:40] Ken asks John if being the type of kid who would do all the homework in his textbooks in the first couple of months annoyed his classmates.

[00:07:34] Dawn asks why John decided to go to Yale University.

[00:08:45] Mentioning that Yale doesn’t have a pre-med program, Dawn asks what John decided to major in.

[00:10:15] John explains how he met his wife at Yale.

[00:11:28] Dawn asks John why he traveled across the country to the University of Washington after graduating from Yale.

[00:12:26] Dawn asks why John decided to focus his graduate work on the progeroid Cockayne syndrome.

[00:14:15] John discusses his decision to go to the University of California, San Francisco for his residency.

[00:16:05] Dawn asks if John immediately joined the faculty at San Francisco after his residency.

[00:17:03] Ken asks John about his work to improve the care of older adults and help them maintain their independence as they age. Ken asks for an overview of the work John and his colleagues do in this area at the Buck Institute

[00:18:39] Ken mentions that a lot of John’s work focuses on the molecular details of how diet and fasting regulate the genes and pathways that control aging. Ken asks John to elaborate on this work.

[00:20:04] Dawn asks what specifically attracted John to the idea of studying the ketogenic diet as an intervention in mid to later life as opposed to a diet consumed habitually throughout life.

[00:23:12] Dawn mentions that John and Eric Verdin, who recruited John to the Buck institute, share an interest in looking at ketone bodies as signaling metabolites, a topic they have written about.

[00:26:21] Ken talks about a conference he and Dawn attended on CBD and seizures, where Ken made the point that ketones are a metabolite of THC.

[00:27:52] Ken asks John to go into more detail about how ketone bodies may link environmental cues such as diet to the regulation of aging.

[00:29:08] Ken talks about how it seems clear that ketone bodies are emerging as crucial regulators of metabolic health and longevity via their ability to regulate HDAC (histone deacetylases) activity and thereby epigenetic gene regulation. He asks John to discuss how beta hydroxybutyrate may be an increasingly useful and important signaling molecule as we age.

[00:34:24] Dawn mentions that John and his colleagues published paper in 2017 in Cell Metabolism titled “Ketogenic Diet Reduces Midlife Mortality and Improves Aging in Mice.” Dawn asks why John chose a cyclical rather than continuous ketogenic diet for this study.

[00:37:56] Dawn asks why John decided to conduct the test of physiological function while the ketogenic diet group was off the diet, and on a standard high-carbohydrate diet.

[00:40:02] Dawn mentions that Megan Roberts and her colleagues at theUniversity of California Davis were also conducting studies on the effects of a ketogenic diet on mice around the same time as John’s study, and that both were published in the same issue of Cell Metabolism. Dawn goes on to mention that Megan was recently interviewed on episode 92 of STEM-Talk where she discussed her paper, “A Ketogenic Diet Extends the Longevity and Healthspan in Adult Mice.” Dawn adds that both Megan’s and John’s studies had similar findings but that Megan’s had the added caveat that the ketogenic diet may also improve strength and coordination. Dawn asks what John’s takeaways were from Megan’s paper and how do the two papers differ?

[00:44:50] Ken mentions that he is personally looking at the effect of the ketogenic diet as a way to avoid sarcopenia and other aspects of aging.

[00:46:42] John discusses possible reasons why the ketogenic diet has such pleiotropic effects on people suffering from diseases such as type 2 diabetes, epilepsy, inflammation etc.

[00:50:17] Dawn mentions that one of the most frequent criticisms of the diet comes from nutritionists who say “show me the five-year data,” she asks how John would respond to that.

[00:54:25] Ken asks about the “arctic variant” mutation, and how this mutant might affect ketosis. He asks John to describe the mutation and how he thinks it might be affecting ketone metabolism in the Inuit population, and how the scientific community might go about investigating this further.

[01:00:06] Dawn asks if John has used exogenous ketones in his studies.

[01:02:21] Dawn asks what the right overlap between the ketogenic diet and exogenous ketones is, and if exogenous ketones might be synergistic with the ketogenic diet.

[01:04:17] Ken asks if there is a threshold or target blood level of ketones for people on the ketogenic diet and using exogenous ketones.

[01:07:27] Ken mentions that another metabolite that has been shown to affect life span is alpha-ketoglutaric. Ken asks John to speculate as to if the mechanism of life span extension seen here is similar to BHB and if the two might be synergistic.

[01:09:30] Dawn mentions that in addition to his work as a researcher at the Buck institute, John is also a geriatrician who cares for older adults who have been hospitalized at the San Francisco VA Medical Center. Dawn asks what sort of work John does with older individuals.

[01:11:25] John discusses his perspective on the education and training of future geroscientists.

[01:15:01] Dawn asks what the most promising interventions being investigated in geroscience are right now.

[01:23:05] Dawn comments that John has been in the Bay area for more than 10 years, going on to ask if it is true that his main interests outside of work are volleyball baseball and food.

[01:24:46] Ken ends the interview mentioning that a little birdie told him that John is a connoisseur of the San Francisco pastry-shop scene.

Links:

John Newman UCSF bio

Newman Lab website

Emma Wilson UC Riverside faculty page

Episode 93: Emma Wilson talks about Toxoplasma gondii infection and its consequences

Our guest today is Dr. Emma Wilson, a researcher who has spent the past 15 years studying Toxoplasma gondii, a protozoan parasite that infects about a third of the world’s population.

She is a native of Scotland and a professor of biomedical science at the University of California, Riverside.

Toxoplasma gondii is a single-celled organism found in all mammals. The primary focus of Emma’s research is the immune response in the brain following Toxoplasma gondii infection. Her 2016 research paper in the online journal PLOS Pathogens connected the Toxoplasma gondii to brain dysfunction.

Show notes:

[00:03:05] Emma begins the interview taking about growing up was born in Glasgow with parents who were in the acting business.

[00:03:38] Emma shares how her father advised her to keep all of her doors open, which lead her as a youth to pursue everything she found interesting.

[00:04:30] Dawn asks if Emma decided to major in ecology in an effort to help save the rainforests.

[00:05:28] Ken asks about Emma’s experience with a “proverbial crazy professor” who showed her a room full of rattlesnakes and how that experience led to Emma’s curiosity in immunology.

[00:06:54] Ken asks whether if it’s that she was paid to stand out in the bush so that mosquitos could feast upon her during a research trip to Tanzania.

[00:08:16] Ken asks if Emma’s experience in Africa was limited to mosquitos or if she was able to see some of the impressive wildlife there.

[00:09:26] Emma discusses her experiences after her research trip to Africa and her decision to pursue work in immunology at Dr. William Harnett’s lab at the University of Strathclyde.

[00:10:32] Dawn asks about the research Emma did in Harnett’s lab.

[00:11:46] Dawn mentions that Emma had the opportunity to attend a conference in Philadelphia where she met many interesting people. She goes on to ask about the conference and how she ended up spending the next five and a half years at the University of Pennsylvania.

[00:13:52] Dawn mentions another conference Emma was able to attend, this one in California, where she stood out for asking so many questions. Dawn asks about how this led her to go to work at University of California, Riverside.

[00:16:50] Ken mentions that the primary focus of Emma’s research at Riverside is the immune response in the brain following Toxoplasma gondii infection, further mentioning that in an episode of the podcast “This Week in Parasitism” Dr. Dickson Despommier referred to Toxoplasma gondii as the most successful parasite on Earth. Ken asks Emma to give an overview of what Toxoplasma gondii is and does.

[00:18:58] Dawn asks why Toxoplasma gondii has such a high infection rate in countries such as France and Brazil, where close to 80 percent of people are infected. In the U.S., only 15 to 30 percent of people are infected.

[00:20:49] Ken mentions that Eskimos, who’s traditional diet is rich in raw meat, have an almost 100 percent infection rate.

[00:21:19] Ken asks how the Toxoplasma parasite prevents digestion in the stomach.

[00:23:12] Emma discusses how most cases of Toxoplasma in healthy adults present little to no consequences of infection, but that congenitally infected children or people who are immunocompromised can have serious consequences.

[00:25:33] Ken asks how an immunocompetent individual keeps the infection at bay and if there is any risk associated with that constantly active immune response in the brain to this infection.

[00:27:32] Ken explains that cats are the only definitive host of the toxoplasmosis parasite because it can only complete its sexual reproduction cycle in the gut of a cat. He goes on to explain that cats eat rats, and sometimes rats eat cat feces, which infects the rats with Toxoplasma gondii, When the cats eat these rats the cats perpetuate the cycle. Ken asks Emma to explain how the infection changes the fundamental fear response in rodents that they naturally have to cats.

[30:48] Ken mentions amazing videos on the web showing infected mice approaching cats and rubbing up against them affectionately.

[00:31:50] Dawn asks if vegetarians are safe from Toxoplasma gondii infection, given that humans typically contract the parasite via uncooked meat from intermediate hosts such as sheep, cows, goats, and pigs.

[00:33:03] Dawn asks if the relationship between the toxoplasmosis parasite and their host can be mutually beneficial.

[00:34:24] Dawn asks if seafood can lead to infection.

[00:35:33] Ken mentions that there is presently no vaccine for Toxoplasma gondii; however, there are commonsense preventative measures such as pregnant women avoiding cat litter and wearing gloves while gardening. Ken goes on to ask if there are any other ways to reduce chances of infection.

[00:37:42] Dawn mentions that Emma and her colleagues at Riverside had a 2016 paper in the journal PLOA Pathogensthat described how Toxoplasma infection leads to a disruption of neurotransmitters in the brain. Dawn goes on to mention that Emma postulated that the infection triggers neurological disease in those who are already predisposed to such diseases.

[00:41:45] Dawn asks if the sex of an animal changes the effect of toxoplasmosis.

[00:42:36] Ken asks if Emma thinks there would be different effects on animals in the wild, in terms of toxoplasmosis infections, or if the laboratory experiments provide a good model for infection.

[00:43:21] Ken mentions that in terms of neurological disease, Toxoplasma’s strongest correlation is with schizophrenia, but Ken mentions that Emma believes the parasite’s presence is a precipitating factor.

[00:44:45] Emma explains the arguments for and against the belief that toxoplasmosis infections are asymptomatic in most humans and acts as a silent partner that serves no role.

[00:47:01] Dawn asks if we should be looking into the effects of eradicating toxoplasma in asymptomatic humans, and, if so, how would this be accomplished.

[00:48:04] Dawn mentions that there are some reports that humans who display risk-taking behavior are more likely to be infected with Toxoplasma gondii, including a higher likelihood in individuals who die in motorcycle accidents as well as entrepreneurs. Dawn asks if there is sufficient evidence to suggest that Toxoplasma gondii might alter risk taking behaviors in humans.

[00:49:42] Dawn brings up that after the aforementioned 2016 paper was published, Emma was quoted as saying that for the first time it has been shown that the direct disruption of a major neurotransmitter in the brain resulted from the infection. Dawn asks Emma if her research has since then been focused more on the mechanisms of the parasite.

[00:53:07] Ken mentions that in 2016, Sugden et al published results of a study looking at a cohort of early middle-aged individuals that suggested Toxoplasma gondii infection does not result in increased susceptibility to neuropsychiatric disorders, poor impulse control or impaired neurocognitive ability. In addition, they found no association between infection and aberrant personality types. He asks why these findings do not reflect other contemporary research on Toxoplasma gondii.

[00:56:12] Dawn asks about Emma’s collaboration with Michael White, with whom she is looking at Toxoplasma gondii cyst formation.

[00:57:49] Emma discusses the findings of her2017 paper “Brains and Brawn: Toxoplasma Infections of the Central Nervous System and Skeletal Muscle” in which she discussed how Toxoplasma infection can affect skeletal muscle.

[00:59:04] Dawn asks if these effects related to skeletal muscle also occur in people who are asymptomatic.

[01:00:47] Ken asks if there might be a way to mitigate the impact of acute and chronic Toxoplasma gondii infection via dietary manipulation or supplementation. Ken referenced a 2016 paper published in PLOS One, in which a Chinese research team reported that T. gondii seems to hijack the host’s PPAR signaling pathway to downregulate the metabolism of fatty acids, lipids and energy in the liver. Ken said that he wonders if a ketogenic diet or supplementation with exogenous ketones might be beneficial?

[01:02:37] Dawn asks what the future of Toxoplasma research should look like given that the broad impact of Toxoplasma gondii on international society and economics is poorly understood.

[01:04:22] Ken mentions that in reference to Toxoplasma gondii, there were a whole spat of papers that sensationalized the nature of the infection. He goes on to ask what responsibility should university press offices and the researchers themselves have in preventing clickbait and communicating science effectively.

[01:06:58] Dawn mentions that when Emma moved to Riverside she decided to focus on work and not getting into a relationship, but despite this ended up getting married and now has a busy household.

[01:07:57] Dawn mentions that when Emma became pregnant her husband took care of the cat litter. Dawn asks if he still changes the cat litter today.

[01:08:19] Dawn asks if Emma has any other final words of advice for people trying to avoid Toxoplasma gondii infection.

Links:

Nourish Balance Thrive archives

Episode 92: Megan Roberts discusses the potential of a ketogenic diet to extend healthspan and lifespan

Our guest today is Megan Roberts, a research scientist who conducted an interesting study that showeda ketogenic diet extended the longevity and healthspan of adult mice. This study has been discussed in several earlier episodes of STEM-Talk.

Megan conducted her research while earning a master’s degree in nutritional biology at the University of California, Davis.

Today, she is the scientific director at Nourish Balance Thrive, an online health-coaching company where Megan helps people optimize their heath and performance.

Show notes:

[00:02:53] Dawn begins the interview mentioning that Megan grew up in Northern California and asks Megan what she was like as a child.

[00:03:20] Megan talks about how her interest in science started.

[00:03:38] Dawn asks Megan how she became a martial arts instructor, teaching teen-agers as well as children as young as five years old.

[00:04:02] Megan talks about her decision to attend the University of California, Davis.

[00:04:16] Megan explains why she initially want to major in biochemistry, but decided toward the end of her freshman year to switch majors.

[00:04:42] Ken asks Megan about her decision to stay at UC Davis to earn a master’s degree in nutritional biology.

[00:05:08] Megan talks about the privilege of having open-minded professors and peers who were a part of her nutritional biology program at UC Davis.

[00:06:07] Ken mentions that part of Megan’s thesis ended up in Cell Metabolism, in the form of a paper titeld, “A Ketogenic Diet Extends Longevity and Healthspan in Adult Mice.”The paper, Ken points out, has been discussed in several episodes of STEM-Talk. He asks Megan about the motivations behind her study.

[00:07:41] Megan describes the three different diets used for the mouse studies.

[00:08:30] Dawn mentions that an important aspect of the study was that all of the mice were fed the same number of calories every day. She asks Megan to explain the significance of this parameter.

[00:09:23] Megan describes the various markers of physiological function that were measured how the study yielded interesting results in terms of healthspan in the mice.

[00:10:14] Dawn asks how the memories of the mice were tested. Dawn also asks Megan to go into detail on the finding that mice on the ketogenic diet were having their memories preserved for longer.

[00:11:13] Ken asks Megan how she tested the grip strength of mice.

[00:12:05] Megan talks about the two areas of healthspan that saw the most dramatic effects with the ketogenic diet: memory and the preservation of motor-function.

[00:12:39] Ken asks if Megan and her colleagues were surprised by the finding that lifespan was increased by 14 percent in the mice fed a ketogenic diet.

[00:13:08] Dawn mentions that the ketogenic diet came out on top in the study, followed by the low-carb diet. Dawn mentions that those mice on the low-carb diet, however, surprisingly gained weight asks Megan is she was surprised by this.

[00:14:35] Ken asks what lead Megan to the idea of studying the ketogenic diet as an intervention in midlife, as opposed to being a habit throughout life.

[00:15:27] Dawn asks how well Megan thinks these mouse models are likely to translate to humans.

[00:17:05] Ken asks what experiments Megan would have done to extend her findings reported in the Cell Metabolism paper if she had managed to have more time, funding and resources.

[00:17:52] Dawn mentions that Megan’s study suggests that the metabolic changes that accompany carbohydrate restriction might indeed help increase lifespan. However, Dawn asks Megan about ketone bodies themselves (AcAc and BhB) and their potential role in the extension of healthspan.

[00:18:13] Ken asks about Megan’s findings in regards to a tissue dependent mTORC1 signaling, in the context of skeletal muscle and the ketogenic diet.

[00:20:26] Dawn asks Megan for her take on the tissue specific effects of ketones that she observed in her work.

[00:21:12] Megan explains the effects of the ketogenic diet on insulin sensitivity. In her study, the ketogenic diet did not impair insulin sensitivity while the low-carb diet did.

[00:22:55] Megan explains the key differences in the design and interpretation of her study versus a similar paper from Eric Verdin’s group, which reported that a cyclical ketogenic diet, but not a consistent one, improved healthspan in older mice.

[00:24:13] Dawn asks Megan about her thoughts on the enrichment of a standard diet with exogenous ketones, and if there could be healthspan benefits from that.

[00:24:47] Ken mentions a recent paper by Poffé, which suggested that a ketone ester can help prevent some of the negative effects of “over-reaching” in endurance training.

[00:25:55] Ken asks if exogenous ketones have their most important effects when taken post-exercise, rather than pre-exercise.

[00:27:02] Dawn asks if there are other untapped uses of endogenous or exogenous ketosis that people may not be considering.

[00:27:39] Dawn asks Megan what her thoughts are on the communication and interpretation of science of this nature in the public domain, and what responsibilities she feels that university press officers and researchers have in this process.

[00:29:34] Dawn mentions that Megan has taken over as chief scientific officer at Nourish Balance Thrive from Tommy Wood, who was interviewed on episode 47 and episode 48 of Stem-Talk. She asks what has led her to decide on her current career and why she has chosen to stay working with athletes as opposed to continuing graduate or medical school.

[00:31:16] Megan explains what she does as a health coach.

[00:31:45] Dawn asks if the general public could benefit from health coaching

[00:32:57] Ken mentions the explosion of research and interest into the gut microbiome and recommends episode 20 of STEM-Talk, an interview with Alessio Fasano, as a primer. Ken then asks Megan about her own quest to recover her gut health, which she has discussed on the Nourish Balance Thrive podcast.

[00:35:31] Dawn asks about Megan’s black-and-white, “type A” personality that can sometimes get her into trouble as a fitness enthusiast.

[00:36:04] Megan talks about her recent article titled, “Why Your Diet Isn’t Working: Under Eating and Overtraining.”

[00:40:00] Ken mentions the blood chemistry calculator project that Megan is working on with Tommy Wood, which uses machine learning algorithms to predict things that are going on biochemically in people based on blood chemistry.

[00:41:43] Megan talks about what her exercise regime and diet look like today.

[00:42:40] Dawn asks about Megan’s first conversation with Tommy Wood, which was about why eating like a Sumo Wrestler was the best way to gain weight.

Links:

Irina Conboy UC Berkeley page

Episode 91: Irina and Michael Conboy explain tissue repair and stem-cell rejuvenation

Our guests today are Drs. Irina and Michael Conboy of the Department of Bioengineering at the University of California Berkeley. In their lab at Berkeley, the Conboys investigate the process of tissue repair in the body in an effort to determine why damaged tissues do not productively repair as the body ages.

In today’s interview, you will hear the Conboys talk about their early research and a fascinating technique they pioneered called heterochronic parabiosis, where the couple took a young mouse and an older mouse and sutured them together so the animals blood and organs. The Conboys found that the older mouse benefited from this fusion, its aged stem cells becoming rejuvenated and its muscle tissues becoming functionally younger.

Since then, the Conboys’ follow-up research has provided fascinating insights into stem-cell niche engineering, tissue repair, and stem-cell aging and rejuvenation. In 2015, they published an important study showing that high levels of the protein TGF-β1 impaired the ability of stem cells to repair tissues. While their experiments also showed that giving old animals young blood appeared to have some benefit to old stem cells, the Conboys’ most recent work provides compelling evidence suggesting the more interesting benefits are instead produced by a dilution of harmful signals in old blood.

The research coming out of the Conboy lab has profound implications in terms of postponing the onset of age-related diseases as well as the prevention of such degenerative conditions such as Parkinson’s, Alzheimer’s, osteoporosis and sarcopenia.

Show notes:

[00:03:23] Dawn opens the interview asking Irina about her time as a gymnast in the Soviet Union.

[00:03:56] Irina talks about how she became interested in biology.

[00:04:36] Michael describes how he was a bit of a nerd who spent a lot of time outdoors as a kid studying bugs.

[00:05:29] Ken asks what Michael’s plans were when he started his education at Harvard.

[00:06:00] Ken inquires as to what it was about lab work that attracted Michael to the point where he abandoned medical school and focused on research instead.

[00:06:56] Irina tells the story of her first overseas visit to Boston and how a female friend of hers had set her up with multiple dates for her visit before her plane had even touched down in the states.

[00:09:06] Michael recounts the story of his first time in Moscow, where he asked Irina if she wanted to hang out.

[00:10:52] Dawn mentions that after graduating, Michael got a job as a lab tech at Harvard, but eventually moved to Philadelphia to join the lab a friend of his was starting. Michael goes on to explain how he and Irina eventually became professional lab rats together there.

[00:13:44] Michael explains how he would likely still be a lab tech if it were not for Irina and her desire to study aging, and how that inspired him to pursue his doctorate at Stanford.

[00:15:10] Dawn asks Irina about her pursuit of a Ph.D. at Stamford in auto-immunity in the lab of Patricia Jones.

[00:18:30] Dawn asks Irina to explain her discovery that Notch Signaling had the potential to regenerate aged muscle, a discovery she made during her post-doc work at Stamford.

[00:21:30] Dawn mentions that Irina finished her post-doc work before Michael did, which allowed her to get work at a competing laboratory. Dawn asks if working at a competing labs created tension between the two of them.

[00:24:26] Ken asks Irina what led her to look into reactivating old stem cells and whether that might delay or even reverse the onset of aging.

[00:26:00] Michael talks about his inspiration for the parabiosis experiment, which involved two mice, one old and one young, being statured together.

[00:30:12] Ken asks what the results of the parabiosis experiment were.

[00:31:57] Ken mentions that the 2005 paper in Nature, which documented the findings of the parabiosis experiment, sparked an interesting reaction from the media that included headlines about “baby boomer vampires.” Ken asks the Conboys if they were annoyed with the overly simplistic interpretations of their study’s findings.

[00:33:27] Dawn asks about Michael and Irina’s research into finding an inhibitory compound in old blood that turned out to be transforming TGF Beta 1.

[00:37:44] Ken brings up Michael and Irina’s 2016 paper, published in Nature Communications,in which they described a new, more definitive, experiment than the parabiosis experiment. This blood exchange experiment, aimed to distinguish whether there was a curative property of young blood, or an inhibitory compound being filtered out of old blood, exchanged only blood between the two animals, rather than all of their organ systems.

[00:40:55] Michael explains that those experiments came at a time when funding was drying up for the Conboy’s lab. He talks about how discussions with Aubrey de Grey from the SENS Research Foundation aided him and Irina with their experiments.

[00:45:23] Dawn asks why Michael and Irina about their criticism of the company “Ambrosia,” a start up in Florida that claims it can combat aging by infusing plasma from young donors into its customers.

[00:47:15] Ken says the coverage of Ambrosia has sparked an interesting question of whether or not young people should store their own blood for future transfusions. He asks if anyone has modeled that in mice.

[00:51:46] Dawn wonders if it’s the age of a stem-cell’s environment that is the key. If so, she asks the Conboys if their research and findings are going to discourage the use of cell-based therapies to treat disorders related to aging?

[00:52:45] Dawn inquires as to how the Conboy’s and their colleagues in the bioengineering department at Southern Cal are developing “youthful micro-niches” for cell and tissue transplantation.

[00:54:11] Ken asks Irina to talk about her group’s 2014 paper published in Nature Communications,that showed that oxytocin in mice is vital for muscle maintenance and regeneration, and that the lack thereof leads to premature sarcopenia.

[00:56:37] Irina elaborates on the comment noted by Wendy Cousins in a media piece associated with the previously mentioned paper, where she said that oxytocin could become a viable alternative to hormone replacement therapy as a way to combat the symptoms of both male and female aging.

[00:58:03] Dawn notes off-label use of intranasal oxytocin is now widely used. Although there have been some human trials of oxytocin associated with mental disorders such as autism, schizophrenia and dementia, it would seem appropriate to have human trials aimed at the potential for oxytocin to prevent, slow, or ameliorate some of the undesirable consequences of aging. Dawn asks the Conboys if they know of any studies underway looking at oxytocin explicitly in the context of aging in humans?

[00:59:43] Ken asks Michael if the intranasal oxytocin would be expected to yield the same benefits in muscle as a subcutaneous injection, or if the dose wouldn’t be sufficient.

[01:02:33] Ken notes a variety of ways that aging can be slowed, from oxytocin to fasting, and asks Michael about a multifaceted approach to aging.

[01:06:27] Ken mentions that a group working at MIT has reported benefits in mice fed lactobacillus reuteri, which has been found to upregulate oxytocin significantly, and that lactobacillus reuteri counteracts age-associated sarcopenia as well.

[01:11:58] Ken asks the Conboys what scientific question they would like to answer if they were given unlimited resources and how would they go about answering it.

[00:14:05] Ken asks Irina about a bumper sticker she keeps in her office that says “don’t believe everything you think.”

[01:15:30] Dawn mentions that Michael and Irina have been married for more than 25 years and that although they don’t have any children, that someone dropping by their house might likely see “Sesame Street” on the TV. Dawn asks the Conboys about their fondness for “Sesame Street.”

Links:

Michael Conboy UC Berkeley page

Conboy Lab homepage

Episode 90: Dawn and Ken answer listener questions

Ken and Dawn return in today’s podcast to answer more listener questions.

Back at the beginning year, Ken and Dawn hosted their first Ask Me Anything episode. In that episode, they promised not to wait another three years and 83 episodes before once again addressing listeners’ questions.

A steady stream of new questions have poured in since that first Ask Me Anything episode. Today, Ken and Dawn take turns answering questions about exogenous ketones, daily allowances of protein, healthy fats, black holes, long-duration space flights, decompression sickness, the future of AI, sloppy science, and much, much more.

Show notes:

[00:04:13] Dawn starts the episode with a listener question for Ken, which is in regards to the Valter Longo interview, episode 64,and the Stuart Phillips interview, episode 84.The listener became confused about protein intake because Longo said that more than 100 grams of protein a day accelerates aging, while Phillips said that the recommended daily allowance for protein is too low. After going online to get some clarification about the right intake of protein, the listener became even confused and asks if Ken could provide some insight and clarity on the issue.

[00:08:40] A listener asks Dawn about her research on exogenous ketones.

[00:09:44] A listener wonders if Ken has read the 2017 paper titled, “Is Sociopolitical Egalitarianism Related to Bodily and Facial Formidability in Men,”and if so, to share his thoughts on it.

[00:11:52] Dawn reads another question addressed to Ken about the utility of a paper out of Harvard that appeared in February.That paper described an observational epidemiological study showing a strong association between the ability to do pushups and cardiovascular events.

[00:14:49] A listener says he has read one of Dr. Ford’s papers criticizing the Turing Test, and wonders why he let Dr. Epstein off the hook during episode 89 of Stem-Talkwhen the topic came up.

[00:16:02] Dawn asks another question on behalf of a listener who asks about Ken’s comments on the previous AMA episodewhere he expressed some reservations about canola oil.

[00:19:27] Dawn follows up by asking Ken which oils he favors.

[00:20:13] Another listener asks Ken about his recent appointment to the National Security Commission on Artificial Intelligence and wonders what the issues the commission is investigating.

[00:20:54] A listener asks Ken about the so called “futurist” types who foreshadow a dark future where AI has a doom-and-gloom effect on humanity at large. The listener asks Ken to expand on his brighter and more hopeful vision of the future where AI and intelligent systems help humanity.

[00:22:44] Dawn asks Ken about the data gathered by the European Space Agency (ESA) since the launching of the Gaia mission, which is cataloguing the composition, brightness, positions, and directions of stars in the Milky Way.

[00:25:13] Dawn is asked about a paper published in late 2018 in the proceedings of the national academy of sciences that was titled, “Space Radiation Triggers Persistent Stress Response, Increases Senescent Signaling, and Decreases Cell Migration in Mouse Intestine.”The paper suggests that space radiation could pose a risk for the gastrointestinal tracts of astronauts

[00:28:47] Ken asks Dawn a question about her involvement in a record-breaking freshwater-cave dive.

[00:31:01] A listener, asking another diving questions of Dawn, wonders if there are any biological or genetic factors that might influence individual susceptibility to decompression sickness or the bends.

[00:33:04] Dawn is asked for her thoughts on what the research community has learned since Gena Shaw’s 2015 landmark paper, “New Study Suggests Brain Is Connected to the Lymphatic System: What the Discovery Could Mean for Neurology.”

[00:36:15] Ken asks Dawn if sleeping position has any effect on the ability of the brain’s lymphatic system to flush out metabolic waist.

[00:37:02] A listener asks Dawn about a 2019 paper published in the proceedings of the national academy of sciences, titled “Brain Ventricular Changes Induced by Long-Duration Space Flight.”

[00:38:16] Ken is asked by a listener to explain the process of photographing a black hole.

[00:39:49] Another listener asks Ken, via Facebook, about the future of space exploration, as well as the future of human and machine teaming.

[00:41:15] A listener writes to Dawn and asks about her involvement in the NASA and ESA 60-day bedrest study, and if she can explain what it entails.

[00:43:53] Dawn asks Ken what he thinks the biggest problems with science are, which prompts Ken to cite Dr. John Ioannidis, who was interviews on episode 77.Ioannidis is a Stanford professor who has been described by “BMJ” as “the scourge of sloppy science.”

[00:46:28] Ken is asked about modern technology’s effect on democracy, and if it is feasible to fix the issues that arising. Ken’s answer includes references to his interview with Dr. Robert Epstein, episode 89.

[00:48:46] A listener asks Ken about his thoughts on mental health and how one can improve mental health and wellness?

[00:51:54] Dawn reads a question posed by a listener about self-reinvention, asking if Ken were to reinvent himself again, what would Ken’s next professional path look like?

[00:53:29] Ken asks Dawn the same question, asking if she were to reinvent herself again, what direction would she take?

[00:54:48] Dawn asks about Ken’s new bike that was built for him in Wyoming, and what sort of riding he plans to do there?

[00:57:43] Ken closes the interview with a final question for Dawn about her past connection with professional hockey.

Episode 89: Robert Epstein reflects on his career and the threat big tech poses to privacy and democracy

Our guest today is Dr. Robert Epstein, a psychologist, professor and journalist who is the former editor of Psychology Today.

Robert is currently a co-founder and the senior research psychologist at the American Institute for Behavioral Research and Technology in Vista, California. He has had a distinguished career as a scientist and journalist researching and writing about advances in mental health, the behavioral sciences, and, most recently, the invisible influence that technology companies have on consumer and political behavior.

Robert is the author of 15 books and has written more than 300 scientific and popular articles. He is the founder of the Cambridge Center for Behavioral Studies. He became well known early in his career for his work on creativity. Since then, he has conducted research on a diverse range of topics such as adolescent-and-adult competency, arranged marriages, sexual orientation, self-control and voter manipulation. He also has also developed a number of unique online competency tests which are annually taken by more than a million people.

Show notes:

[00:03:38] Dawn begins the interview asking Robert about growing up in Connecticut.

[00:04:57] Dawn asks if Robert skipped a grade in school, given that he graduated from high school at 16.

[00:06:16] Robert talks about his interest in computers in the 60’s, and how his high school was one of the first in the country to even have a computer.

[00:07:27] Ken asks about what lead Robert to attend Trinity.

[00:08:23] Dawn inquires as to whether Robert knew he was going to major in psychology when he first showed up at Trinity, or if he simply ended up gravitating toward the field.

[00:10:14] Robert talks about collecting and analyzing the first ever campus-wide sex survey conducted at Trinity.

[00:11:40] Robert explains what he did in the two years between obtaining his bachelor’s degree in 1976 and pursing graduate school.

[00:13:07] Dawn asks about Robert’s experience at the University of Maryland Baltimore.

[00:13:48] Robert tells the interesting story of how he ended up at Harvard, in part, thanks to the behaviorist B.F. Skinner.

[00:15:40] Ken asks how Robert managed to be one of the few people who never had to write a dissertation while at Harvard to obtain his doctorate.

[00:20:29] Dawn mentions how, at the time, Robert was becoming well known for his work with Skinner. She points out that many behaviorists at the time were working with chimpanzees and asks why Robert and Skinner were working with pigeons instead.

[00:23:49] Dawn mentions that after his work with pigeons, Robert began to study creativity. He explains why he concluded that creativity is an orderly and predictable process that can be learned, rather than something one is simply born with.

[00:27:34] Robert talks about how he founded the Cambridge Center for Behavioral Studies after his time at Harvard, and how he took on the role of executive director despite Skinner’s warning to never go into administrative work.

[00:29:56] Ken asks about Robert’s time at the Cambridge Center and if all the papers he wrote during that time had a theme, or if they were just in general social-science communication.

[00:31:28] Robert discusses his book “Cognition, Creativity and Behavior” which is a book of selected essays that he published in 1996. He discusses the various topics in the collection, ranging from creativity to parenting to artificial intelligence.

[00:33:09] Ken asks why, after ten years at the Cambridge Center, Robert moved to the west coast.

[00:35:40] Dawn asks about Robert’s research into arranged marriages and his finding that couples in arranged marriages developed a greater affection for each other than those who married for love. She asks him about his view that people can deliberately learn to love each other.

[00:40:02] Robert discusses his time at the University of California San Diego where he gave students extra credit for participating in “affection building exercises.” He also explains what these were like and what he learned from them.

[00:42:37] Ken asks about Robert’s work on psychological maturity, and his criticism of the “artificial extension of childhood” that is prevalent today.

[00:47:43] Dawn asks about a study on sexual orientation that Robert published in 2007 that supported Freud’s position that bisexuality is the human norm.

[00:50:53] Dawn mentions a book that Robert coedited called Parsing the Turing Test, which refers to Alan Turing’s philosophical test for machine intelligence in which a human judge engages in a three-way conversation between a machine and a person, and if the judge is unable to differentiate the two, then the machine is deemed intelligent.

[00:55:53] Ken mentions that he, Clark Glymour and Pat Hayes provided a running commentary on Turing’s paper for Robert’s book, Parsing the Turing Test.

Editor’s Note: Ken deems the Turing Test a silly goal for AI. See his paper published in Scientific American (with Pat Hayes) on this topic.

[00:57:15] Dawn mentions that in 2012, Robert co-founded with a former student The American Institute for Behavioral Research and Technology. It’s goal is promote and conduct research that has the potential to improve people’s wellbeing. She goes on to mention that he is the senior research psychologist at the institute, and asks about a current study he is working on that is the largest sexual orientation study ever conducted.

[00:58:43] Ken brings up the issue of online manipulation, which has become a hot topic since the 2016 election. He goes on to mention Robert’s 2015 paper on what is known as the search engine manipulation effect, or SEME. This paper showed, in a series of controlled experiments, that biased search results could easily shift the opinions of undecided voters by maybe 20% or more, and even by 80% in certain demographics. Given that most elections are won by small margins this was a potentially very significant finding, and Ken inquires more into this research.

[01:03:08] Dawn mentions that Google was recently fined 1.5 billion euros, which equates to approximately $1.7 billion, by the EU. This was the third time Google was fined by the union for anti-trust violations regarding online advertising. While the EU’s regulatory approach has been criticized as unfairly targeting tech companies, this view is beginning to change. She asks if Robert sees Europe’s approach as a potential global model for tempering the influence of Silicon Valley.

[01:06:33] Ken talks about Silicon Valley’s relationship to Washington.

[01:08:26] Ken asks about Robert’s development of online monitoring systems for search engines. He goes on to ask about the monitoring system used to monitor what search engine companies showed people while conducting election-related searches in the days leading up to the 2016 and 2018 elections.

[01:13:04] Robert explains why government regulation isn’t likely to be successful in combating the influence of large tech companies, particularly in light of Mark Zuckerberg’s op-ed piece for the Washington Post in which he proposed government regulation of the whole internet.

[01:16:28] Dawn asks about Robert’s opinion on the new documentary The Creepy Line, which features several interviews with him.

[01:18:21] Ken mentions that in our society we are addicted to convenience and it seems that we are willing to trade privacy for convenience every time.

[01:19:43] Dawn mention’s Robert’s AIBRT website, on which there are a number of resources and tests ranging from “Parenting a Teen” to “Do You Need Therapy?” and “How Infantilized Are You?”

[01:20:49] Ken asks Robert to talk about a 2017 article, in which he provided people 7 simple steps that they could take to guard their online presence.

[01:23:53] Dawn closes the interview asking if Robert has any interests or hobbies outside of his work.

Links:

Dr. Robert Epstein bio

Epstein’s online tests

UF Brain Tumor Immunotherapy Program

Episode 88: Duane Mitchell talks about the uphill battle to treat aggressive brain tumors

Our guest today is Dr. Duane Mitchell, the Phyllis Kottler Friedman Professor in the Department of Neurosurgery at the University of Florida College of Medicine.

He’s also the co-director of the university’s Preston A. Wells Jr. Center for Brain Tumor Therapy and Director of the Brain Tumor Immunotherapy Program.

Duane and Dawn have been friends since their days at Duke University where they served on the Institutional Review Board together. Duane got his medical degree and doctorate at Duke and then joined the faculty, where he spent the next decade before moving to the University of Florida in 2013.

Duane and his team at Florida are among the world leaders in the uphill battle to find ways to treat glioblastoma, an aggressive form of brain cancer that affects about 13,000 Americans annually. It’s the disease that recently took the life of Senator John McCain. People who are diagnosed with glioblastoma typically live for less than two years.

Show notes:

[00:03:00] Duane explains the story behind his “quote of the week” tradition, where every Monday morning he share’s a quote with his colleagues in his research group.

[00:03:43] Ken asks if it is true that one of Duane’s favorite quotes comes from Mark Twain: “I have never let my schooling interfere with my education.”

[00:04:13] Dawn asks if it is true that by the sixth grade Duane had decided he was going to become a doctor.

[00:04:52] Duane talks about his decision to attend Rutgers College.

[00:05:37] Duane explains how reading Stephen Rosenberg’s book “The Transformed Cell” heavily impacted him during his time at Rutgers.

[00:06:43] Dawn mentions that she and Duane met at Duke University, and how this almost didn’t happen because Duane was originally going to attend another university for med school.

[00:07:55] Dawn explains that after receiving his MD and Ph.D. from Duke, Duane went on to serve in numerous faculty positions for the next 12 years. During this time, Duane became known as a trailblazer in the application and research of immunotherapy for cancer, particularly brain tumors. Dawn asks Duane for an overview of the role that immunotherapy plays in the treatment of brain tumors.

[00:09:30] Duane explains how in 2013 he joined the faculty at the University of Florida and managed to bring his entire team from Duke with him.

[00:10:47] Duane has acquired considerable clinical and translational research experience as a principle investigator on seven first-in-human protocols through FDA approved clinical trials. Dawn points out that at Florida, Duane and his team offer unique clinical options for adult and pediatric malignant brain tumor patients. She asks Duane to explain, in depth, the work that he and his do at Florida.

[00:12:11] Duane gives an overview of the types of brain tumor and what some of the more common tumor types are.

[00:14:09] Dawn asks why Duane chose to specialize in glioblastoma, or GBM, an aggressive form of brain cancer that kills 15,000 Americans eachyear.

[00:15:16] Ken asks what characteristics of GBM make those particular types of tumors so difficult to treat.

[00:16:17] Duane talks about the standard of care for these malignant brain tumors.

[00:18:36] Dawn asks if immunotherapy is a stand-alone approach for treating brain tumors, or if it is administered in conjunction with standard therapy. She goes on to asks if changes to the immune system through radiation or chemotherapy have a negative effect on immunotherapy.

[00:21:20] Dawn asks if recent findings about the nervous system’s immune system, and the new-found interconnectedness between the glymphatic system and the lymphatic system impact immunotherapy approaches for brain tumors.

[00:23:02] Ken asks how the immune system is naturally equipped to fight cancer.

[00:25:36] Dawn explains that the (PD)-1/PD-L1 pathway, otherwise known as Programmed Cell Death, is an immune resistance mechanism that tumor cells exhibit to dampen immune response. Dawn asks about the efficacy of a new class of immunotherapy drugs called immune checkpoint inhibitors that block these signals and allow immune cells to be more effective in fighting the tumor.

[00:28:11] Dawn mentions that Duane is helping to lead a health-organized coalition known as the ReMission Alliance, which is a University of Florida initiative that brings together neuro-oncology experts from institutions across the U.S. and Canada.

[00:29:32] Ken mentions stories, both anecdotal and found in the literature, of the ketogenic diet having a beneficial effect in fighting cancer. He asks if Duane has given thought to the role of HDAC, given that BHB is an HDAC inhibitor, and that perhaps in addition to the energetic effects of ketone bodies, another benefit of the ketogenic diet in cancer is its signaling effects.

[00:31:17] Ken mentions a recent paper in Nature Communications that describes how Duane and his colleagues at Florida have discovered a new use of stem cells that could clear a revolutionary pathway to make immunotherapy drugs effective in treating brain cancer.

[00:33:25] Duane explains how cancer vaccines work.

[00:34:39] Duane describes his study investigating personalized brain tumor-targeting vaccines for treatment of pediatric medulloblastoma.

[00:35:50] Dawn asks about Duane’s clinical trial using an enhanced vaccine credited with significantly extending the lives of multiple glioblastoma patients.

[00:37:36] Ken asks what the survival rates are for glioblastoma.

[00:39:20] Heterogeneity, which is to say that is there can be a variety of distinct microenvironments with varying populations of neoplastic cells and collections of tissue-specific resident and recruited stromal cell types, can significantly impact response to immune therapy. Given this, Dawn asks if there is an effective tumor microenvironment on response to immunotherapy.

[00:40:56] Duane talks about the mechanics and feasibility of the use of nanoparticles to administer cancer antigens to immune cells by crossing the blood brain barrier.

[00:42:26] Ken asks if there are genetic or epigenetic factors that influence immunotherapy response.

[00:44:38] Ken asks about the gut microbiome and if it has any influence on response to immunotherapy.

[00:46:51] Ken mentions an earlier STEM-Talk Guest who specializes in microbiome, Alessio Fasano, interviewed in episode 20 of STEM-Talk.

[00:47:56] Duane talks about what he sees as exciting coming down the line in brain tumor treatment.

[00:50:15] Dawn asks about the impact that the National Cancer Act has had on cancer research, and our efforts to reduce cancer mortality in America.

[00:52:52] Duane ends the interview with advice for aspiring researchers and physicians.

Links:

Duane Mitchell UF bio

Anticatabolic Effects of Ketone Bodies in Skeletal Muscle

Episode 87: Dom D’Agostino reflects on his 10 years of research into ketogenic nutrition

Dr. Dominic D’Agostino returns to STEM-Talk to give Ken and Dawn an update on his research into ketogenic nutrition. Dom was the guest on episode 14 back in 2016 when ketogenic diets didn’t even show up on a list of the top-10 diets that people Googled. Since then, the search term “ketogenic diet” has risen to the top of the list.

In today’s episode, Dom talks about his past 10 years of research into ketogenic diets and what he is learning about the physiological benefits of nutritional ketosis.

Dom is tenured associate professor in the Department of Molecular Pharmacology and Physiology at the University of South Florida Morsani College of Medicine.He also is a research scientist here at IHMC.Throughout his career, Dom has been a researcher with a diverse background in neuroscience, molecular pharmacology, nutrition and physiology.

Show notes:

[00:02:55] Dawn begins the interview mentioning that when she and Ken started hosting STEM-Talk, the ketogenic diet wasn’t on the list of the top-10 most Googled diets of 2015. Today, however, Dawn points that ketogenic diet is number one on the list. She asks Dom if he foresaw sudden mass interest in a ketogenic diet coming.

[00:04:12] Ken asks Dom for his thoughts on how the ketogenic diet has went from being very obscure to becoming a household term.

[00:06:04] Ken comments on the evolutionary component of the ketogenic diet and how our ancestors must have gone in and out of ketosis based on the availability of food. He also comments on the unique aspect of the ketogenic diet, being that it has an objective measurement, and asks Dom to talk about that.

[00:06:59] Dawn comments on the cynicism regarding the ketogenic diet, particularly from nutritionists. She asks Dom to address the criticism and pushback that the ketogenic diet receives from so many nutritionists.

[00:10:02] Ken mentions that some fields are resistant to change and new science due to the emotion behind established theories. Dom agrees and then talks about how people, even doctors, are resistant to new data and new science.

[00:11:13] Dom talks about the most common misconceptions and overrepresentations of the ketogenic diet.

[00:12:54] Ken discusses his dissatisfaction with the term “ketogenic diet” since the word diet implies the mandated consumption of certain food items. He goes on to say that if one is in ketosis, then, by definition, they are doing a ketogenic diet, even though they may be in ketosis because they have been fasting and haven’t eaten anything. Ken and Dom discuss how knowledge about ketogenic nutrition has changed over time and that it is certainly possible to eat an unhealthy ketogenic diet.

[00:15:35] Dom and Ken talk about the results of a recent Megan Roberts paper, “A Ketogenic Diet Extends Longevity and Healthspan in Adult Mice,”that showed a 13% increase in the lifespan of the mice along with remarkably improved healthspan.

[00:20:26] Dom shares his thoughts on the potential of exogenous ketones in the context of blood glucose regulation.

[00:27:07] Ken asks if Dom has been tracking Virta Health, which was founded by Dr. Jeff Volek who was interviewed in STEM-Talk episode 43. Virta Health has been publishing impressive results of its trials that show people reversing type-2 diabetes via a well-formulated ketogenic diet.

[00:29:13] Ken adds that the reported numbers from Virta show 60% to 70% of their patients going off their insulin medication or greatly reducing their insulin levels.

[00:30:55] Dawn asks about Dom’s experience going underwater for 10 days in participation of a NASA NEEMO mission. She asks him to talk about his personal experience as well as his background in hyperbaric physiology.

[00:32:08] Dom discusses his group’s work replicating the experimental design of his original oxygen toxicity work in aged and obese rats.

[00:33:35] Dawn briefly describes what oxygen toxicity is, and asks Dom about the first human studies, on which he is serving as a consultant, that are being conducted at Duke University to assess the effect of nutritional ketosis on oxygen toxicity and seizure risk. She points out that the studies that are being run by Dr. Bruce Derrick.

[00:36:36] Dom discusses brain energy metabolism, and cerebral metabolism, in the context of ketone bodies.

[00:39:23] Dom talks about his group’s research into kabuki syndrome, an epigenetic disorder that causes altered growth and cognitive dysfunction in children.

[00:42:02] Dom elaborates on the difference between ketone esters and ketone salts.

[00:44:00] Ken asks if there’s any evidence that people experience medical issues as a result of ketone esters or salts.

[00:48:02] Dawn asks about the transition into ketosis for women, which appears to be more difficult than it is for men, and whether the use of exogenous ketones would be a good option for women.

[00:49:43] Dawn asks if there are any more resources that have been generated on a vegetarian ketogenic diet, since the last time she and Dom discussed it on STEM-Talk.

[00:50:41] Ken asks about the differences between a ketone tolerance test and a glucose tolerance test.

[00:53:36] Ken discusses how some research suggests that anaerobic athletes such as wrestlers, boxers, and MMA fighters will experience a dip in performance on a ketogenic diet. He asks what the state of research is on this topic, and how such athletes can modify their fueling to obtain the benefits of the ketogenic diet (such as brain protection) while maximizing their performance.

[00:56:57] Dom discusses the ketogenic diet in relation to the gut microbiome, and the resolving of long-term GI issues for people who go on the ketogenic diet, as well as the study coming from the Sonnenberg lab at Stanford.

[00:59:58] Dom talks about his group’s exploration of an ecological idea of cancer treatment based on the ecological concept of animal extinction.

[01:02:37] Dom talks about his collaborative paper, written with his Ph.D. student, Andrew Koutnik, and Brendan Egan, titled, “Anti-catabolic Effects of Ketone Bodies in Skeletal Muscle.”

[01:05:11] Dawn asks about Dom’s research on cancer cachexia, and what spurred his interest in this topic.

[01:07:05] Dawn asks what targets people should shoot for on a ketogenic diet with regards to their electrolytes, and to describe the signs and symptoms of inadequate electrolytes.

[01:09:31] Ken asks what experiences stick out to Dom, as he reflects on the last 10 years of his scientific journey.

[01:12:11] Dawn asks about Dom and his wife’s new dog and their farm.

[01:14:15] Ken asks about Dom’s fitness routine now that he no longer goes to a gym.

[01:16:05] Dawn ends the interview asking if Dom recommends farming and gardening as a way to stay in shape.

Links:

Dom’s website

Dom’s USF website

Dom’s IHMC bio

Episode 86: Matt Johnson talks about the power and future of human-machine teaming

Our guest today is Dr. Matt Johnson, another colleague who works with Ken and Dawn at IHMC.

Matt is a research scientist who joined the institute in 2002 after a 20-year career as Naval aviator. He focuses on human-machine teaming as it relates to technologies such as robotics, software agents and autonomous vehicles. These technologies are used in military responses and help first responders with disaster responses. They are used in space and aviation work as well. He also is part of an IHMC team developing humanoid behaviors and advanced interface concepts that will enable Boston Dynamics’ Atlas robot and NASA’s Valkyrie robot to do complex work.

Matt was in the news recently for a project he’s doing with the police department here in Pensacola. He’s leading a team to develop specialized drones that police officers will be able to use in a number of areas ranging from search and rescue operations to disaster response.

AI Magazineis running an article in its spring issue that Matt co-wrote with Alonso H. Vera, the chief of the Human Systems Integration Division at NASA Ames Research Center. Titled,“No AI Is An Island: The Case For Teaming Intelligence,”the article argues that artificial intelligence will only reach its full potential if it has enough teaming intelligence to work well with humans.

Show notes:

[00:02:52] Matt begins by discussing his upbringing in Long Island, New York, and his unusual family dynamics.

[00:03:25] Dawn asks what lead Matt to attend the University of Notre Dame in Indiana and work on undergraduate degree in aerospace engineering.

[00:03:59] Ken brings up that after obtaining his undergraduate degree, Matt went into the Navy as an aviator, and asks what motivated that transition.

[00:04:44] Matt explains how he ended up at Texas A&M in Corpus Christi where he obtained his master’s degree in computer science.

[00:05:45] Matt talks about his transition out of the Navy and how he came to live in Pensacola and work at IHMC.

[00:07:02] Matt touches on how after a few years at IHMC, he began working on his Ph.D. through Delft University in the Netherlands.

[00:10:03] Ken mentions that Matt’s research focuses on making technology more flexible and resilient through human-machine teamwork. He asks Matt to define what he means by human-machine teamwork.

[00:11:51] Dawn brings up that Matt’s human-machine teamwork endeavors have led to a number of different projects in various fields, one of which is a partnership with the Pensacola Police Department to develop specialized drones for police use in a number of operations including search and rescue and disaster response.

[00:14:05] Matt discusses his ongoing project to help develop humanoid behaviors and advanced interface concepts for robots.

[00:15:53] Ken asks Matt to talk about an article Matt has with Alonso Vera of NASA Ames that’s appearing in the spring issue of AI Magazine.

[00:17:03] Dawn talks about how machine intelligence is making inroads into our everyday world, citing a few examples such as self-driving cars and digital assistants like Siri and Alexa. Dawn asks Matt if he can use self-driving cars as a way to explain the gaps and challenges that intelligent technologies still face.

[00:18:52] Matt talks about how humans are still far better at driving cars and that the technology for self-driving cars still has a long way to go before matching the safety record of humans.

[00:20:11] Dawn describes how Elon Musk told a group of governors that they should adopt AI legislation before robots go rouge and start roaming the streets killing people. She asks Matt if he agrees with Musk, or if the notion of rouge robots is an over exaggeration.

[00:21:23] Ken mentions that it seems natural to think of AI, and technology in general, as a means to compensate for human limitations. He goes on to mention that Matt’s article in AI Magazine warns people to be aware of misconceptions associated with this viewpoint, and asks Matt to talk about them.

[00:24:16] Matt compares human-machine teamwork with a musician playing a duet to illustrate the idea of “teaming intelligence.”

[00:25:47] Ken asks what “common ground” means in regards to the communication between humans and AI, given that “common ground” has a technical meaning in communication theory and is generally mentioned in regards to intelligent human beings who share an understanding or mental model of the world.

[00:27:14] Ken asks Matt for his takeaways from the book “Digital Apollo” by David Mindell, which described tensions that existed between the engineers and astronauts during the Apollo years.

[00:28:43] Dawn mentions that Matt was recently awarded a grant to work with on a NASA-related project to use machine-learning to optimize signal capture on a novel device being developed at CalTech lymphatic imaging.

[00:29:08] Ken asks Matt what he does in his downtime.

[00:29:34] Dawn asks Matt about his frequent humanitarian trips to Hatti, which he has been making over the past several years as a volunteer at an orphanage and adjacent medical clinic.

Links:

Matt Johnson bio

Episode 85: David Geary discusses our shrinking brains, cognitive development and sex differences

Today’s guest is Dr. David Geary, a cognitive developmental scientist whose wide-ranging interests are particularly focused on evolutionary psychology, sex differences and children’s mathematical development.

He is a Curators’ Distinguished Professor and a Thomas Jefferson Fellow in the Department of Psychological Sciences and Interdisciplinary Neuroscience Program at the University of Missouri Columbia.

David’s book, “Male, Female: The Evolution of Human Sex Differences,” has been described as a landmark text that provides a comprehensive evolutionary model to explain sex differences. His research on children’s mathematical development resulted in a MERIT award from the National Institutes of Health. In addition to authoring four books, he has published more than 300 articles and chapters across a diverse range of topics.

David has served as a member of the President’s National Mathematics Advisory Panel and was appointed by President George W. Bush to the National Board of Directors for the Institute for Education Sciences.

Show notes:

[00:02:36] Dawn asks about David’s childhood, mentioning that his family moved around quite a bit before settling down in Northern California.

[00:03:00] Dawn asks if David’s early struggles in elementary school were due to jumping around from classroom to classroom because of family moves.

[00:03:43] David talks about how he first became interested in science.

[00:04:15] Ken asks why David decided to go to Santa Clara University in Silicon Valley.

[00:04:47] David explains how he ended up majoring in developmental psychology.

[00:05:18] David recounts the story of how he went from working at an auto parts store to getting his master’s degree in clinical child and school psychology at California State University.

[00:06:06] Dawn mentions that before David earned his master’s degree, he went to work as a school psychologist and counselor. She then asks what led him to decide to enter the Ph.D. program as the University of California Riverside.

[00:07:05] After finishing his Ph.D., David had a number of university positions before landing at the University of Missouri in Columbia. Ken asks David about the school’s interdisciplinary evolution group, which was a key reason David was interested in the university.

[00:08:12] Dawn asks how children’s mathematical development and evolutionary psychology became two of David’s primary research focuses.

[00:10:04] David summarizes the factors that determine human intelligence.

[00:11:11] David explains why the attempt to define intelligence has always been a controversial issue.

[00:11:51] Ken asks about David’s research in the ‘90s that made a distinction between evolved forms of cognition, such as language, and other forms of cognition that are more dependent on schooling, such as reading and arithmetic.

[00:14:44] David talks about his interest in Evolutionary Educational Psychology, and how that relates to the insights gleaned from his recent article that argued that there is built-in scaffolding that helps a child’s mind learn to talk, use tools, and play, but that there is nothing of the sort for learning how to read, write, or do math.

[00:17:14] David has been investigating children’s mathematical cognition for nearly 25 years, including a 2015 paper on the numerical foundations of young children’s mathematical development.Dawn asks David to share his key takeaways from this research.

[00:20:08] David gives an overview of the MU Math Study, which is supported by the National Institutes of Health and the National Science Foundation, and focuses on mathematical development from preschool all the way through high school.

[00:22:32] David discusses his research into human sex differences, and human sexual selection.

[00:23:46] Dawn asks about David’s paper that focused on human cognitive sex differences, which illustrated how sexual selection can result in sex differences in the brain and cognition. The paper also explored how these differences appear to be related to mitochondrial functioning, which led David propose a taxonomy of sex differences in human condition-dependent cognitive abilities. Dawn asks David to talk about these underlying brain systems and their development.

[00:26:36] Ken asks how disease, premature birth, and pre- and postnatal exposure to toxins affect males and females differently.

[00:28:56] Dawn mention’s David’s 2018 paper in “Psychological Review”that argued that the overall efficiency of mitochondrial functioning is critical to general health, brain development and functioning, as well as age-related changes in health and cognition. She goes on to ask David about his view that mitochondrial functioning provides a plausible basic biological mechanism that underlies the relations among all these phenomena.

[00:32:10] Ken mentions Doug Wallace, one of the pioneers of mitochondrial research, who was interviewed on episode 67 of STEM-Talk, who has shown that mitochondrial haplotypes have adapted to the environment, with some being better adapted to colder weather. He asks David if these haplotypes are at greater risk of decreased intelligence due to their decreased ATP efficiency as a result of their environmental adaptation.

[00:33:52] Some whole genome sequencing studies have suggested that several hundred genetic loci associated with intelligence might explain 5 to 10 percent of an individual’s intelligence. One interpretation of these results would suggest that the environment is by far the largest determinant of human intelligence. Dawn asks how these findings might be integrated into David’s mitochondrial hypothesis.

[00:37:04] Ken asks if the sexually-dimorphic differences in cellular antioxidant capacity translate to differences in mitochondrial function and intelligence over the lifespan.

[00:39:57] Dawn asks why mitochondrial approaches to treating neurological diseases have not resulted in improved outcomes.

[00:39:30] David talks about his interest in Evolutionary Educational Psychology, and how that relates to the insights gleaned from his recent article that argued there is built-in scaffoldingthat helps a child’s mind learn to talk, use tools, and play, but that there is nothing of the sort for learning how to read, write, or do math.

[00:42:21] Ken mentions that David, and a number of other scientists, were cited in a 2010 Discover magazine article titled, “If Modern Humans Are So Smart, Why Are Our Brains Shrinking?”Ken asks David to talk about why human brain volume is shrinking.

[00:44:28 Dawn asks if there is evidence to give credence to the idea that because more educated men and women are procreating later, or not at all, is contributing to our decreasing brain volume.

[00:47:02] Dawn asks about the selection pressures that drove our brains to increase in size prior to the rise of agriculture.

[00:50:10] David explains how population density relates to brain size.

[00:52:20] Ken asks if the shrinkage of the human brain, which has decreased from 1,500 cubic centimeters to 1,350 cubic centimeters, is found in all locations and populations.

[00:53:01] David describes why he believes that the available evidence supports the notion that our smaller brains equate to less intelligence, or less capacity for intelligence.

[00:56:11] Ken asks if mitochondrial function has changed since the agricultural revolution.

[00:57:02] Ken asks if there is a “worst case scenario” with regards to AI and our increasing dependence upon it, asking if with continuing to off-load evolutionary pressure on brain size and cognitive capacity onto our technology.

[01:02:32] Dawn asks about David’s book Male, Female: The Evolution of Human Sex Differences, and how it has been described as the first comprehensive evolutionary model to analyze sex differences and how they have evolved by means of sexual selection.

[01:05:34] David elaborates on his words in an interview with The Guardian, where he said “People talk about cultural factors creating sex differences. I think it’s the other way around: There’s pressure to disconfirm the way people are. Cultural hype tries to make the sexes more alike, which is stressful for boys and girls and men and women.”

[01:08:55] Dawn mentions that David is perhaps the first academic to frame biological sex differences in terms of their vulnerability. She asks him why he believes that this approach could transform science and medicine.

[01:11:56] David discusses the Basic Index of Gender Inequality, which was devised in partnership with Gigster Stoet of the University of Essex in the UK. He describes why the index as a new measurement tool is fairer to both men and women. He talks about how the index presents a simplified but more accurate picture of people’s well-being than measurements like the World Economic Forum’s Gender Gap Index.

[01:16:55] Ken mentions that David’s index marks Italy and Israel as the two most egalitarian nations in regards to gender, with the United States placing at number 61 of 134.

[01:18:00] Ken asks why it is that Saudi Arabia is listed as the third-most gender egalitarian nation on the index.

[01:19:41] Dawn asks about David’s other projects in evolutionary psychology, that range from the study of social signaling, and mate quality, to sex differences in face perception.

[01:22:06] David ends the interview talking about what he does with his spare time.

Links:

David Geary bio

MU Math Study

David Geary Amazon page

Episode 84: Joe Gomes discusses optimizing human performance and resiliency in the NFL and elite warfighters

Today’s guest is Joe Gomes, the former head strength and conditioning coach for the NFL’s Oakland Raiders, who today is IHMC’s new High Performance Director.

Joe came to IHMC a little more than a year ago to be part of a new biological team that is searching for innovative ways to extend the capabilities and resilience of high-performing humans who operate in extreme environments. In today’s interview, you’ll hear Joe talk about a number of projects he’s working on, including his work with IHMC’s engineers and NASA to develop an exercise machine for long-duration space missions.

Joe was with the Raiders for the 2016 season when Oakland won 12 games and went to the playoffs for the first time in 14 years. Although Joe has spent most of his career helping professional and amateur athletes, he also spent five years in North Carolina as a senior advisor and performance director for the United States Army Special Operations Command.

Show notes:

[00:03:43] Ken asks about Joe’s childhood and whether he played a lot of sports growing up.

[00:04:14] Joe talks about being drawn to rugby because of the teamwork that’s involved.

[00:05:27] Joe describes how he and a friend decided to take some time off from school and travel to Australia.

[00:06:41] Joe discusses returning to London to go to back to school and major in sports science and rehabilitation.

[00:07:37] Ken mentions that even as a young man Joe was very interested in the science of how the human body worked, and asks Joes how it came about that he started to question some of the basic training techniques offered by coaches.

[00:08:40] Joe talks about working with John Allen, a physiotherapist who worked with the British track and field team, where he helped Allen set up a hydrotherapy program to assist injured athletes. He goes on to talk about how he also became involved in a program to screen elite athletes who were potential Olympic medalists.

[00:11:36] Joe explains how he became interested in strength and conditioning.

[00:12:52] Ken asks how a sports-medicine conference in Las Vegas led to Joe moving from London to Phoenix Arizona.

[00:14:47] Joe tells of how he began working with the Argentinian national rugby team back in 2007.

[00:16:36] Joe explains how his experience with the Argentinian rugby team helped him better understand that in addition to physical training, instilling a winning mindset is also important to get the best performance from athletes.

[00:18:36] Joe talks about his passion for teaching athletes about self-accountability.

[00:19:44] Ken asks Joe to talk about his biggest takeaways in terms of optimizing athletes’ performance after working with the Argentinian ruby team.

[00:20:43] Joe gives an account of “his own world tour,” where he hopped around working with different national teams and governing bodies for three years after his experience with the Argentinians.

[00:22:01] Ken asks for Joe to describe his time running the NFL annual scouting combine, where Joe helped train 35 first-round draft picks in a three-year period while working for EXOS as the director of performance.

[00:24:16] Ken comments on how the NFL combine seems quite artificial, focused heavily on explosive power and strength. He notes that much of the training for the combine is designed to stiffen the tendons of the athletes for better power and strength transfer. He goes on to ask if this has resulted in the tendons being stiffer than the muscles are strong, and if there has been a higher injury rate in athletes who have attended the combine training. If so, Ken asks, does it come down to how their team handled them after the combine at the start of training camp.

[00:26:54] Joe discusses how he came to work for the U.S. Army Special Operations Command at Fort Bragg.

[00:28:13] Ken explains how impressed he was by the good work Joe was doing in facilitating the performance, and also preserving the health, of elite warfighters at Fort Bragg. Ken then asks about the similarities and differences between the training for the NFL as opposed to tier-1 military units.

[00:30:13] Joe describes the work he did at Fort Bragg as the most important work of his career.

[00:32:38] Joe tells the story of how he came to work with the Oakland Raiders.

[00:33:44] After arriving in Oakland, Joe helped to plan and open a new state-of-the-art training facility for the Raiders. Ken asks what the process was like and what a state-of-the-art NFL training facility entails.

[00:35:48] Ken asks Joe about the need for a personalized approach to optimize an NFL player’s performance.

[00:37:53] With injuries in the NFL, and sports in general, being a common occurrence, Joe discusses how he uses technology and science to implement strategies for mitigating the risk of injury.

[00:39:23] Ken asks whether coaches and staff fully appreciate the importance of good nutrition and exercise for their own health.

[00:40:31] Joe discusses recommendations and strategies for the preservation of strength and muscle mass, both for athletes and everyday people.

[00:42:48] Joe talks about the importance of sleep. He points out that even though we can all have bad nights where we don’t get optimal rest, people should keep a week to week “rolling total” number of hours of sleep.

[00:44:01] Ken mentions that while working with the NFL, Joe spent a lot of time ensuring that travel didn’t negatively impact players’ performance. Joe explains his methodology for mitigating jet lag in players.

[00:46:14] Joe discusses what high performers consistently do, and also lists some of the common hindrances and pitfalls of progress.

[00:47:23] Joe explains the metrics used in determining the success of an intervention.

[00:48:48] Ken comments on how technology today allows everyone to collect a massive amount of data about themselves. He goes on to ask, for those individuals who want to keep things simple and collect a minimal amount of data, what are the key fundamental metrics of health and performance that a person needs to track.

[00:51:14] In regards to heart-rate variability (HRV), Ken asks if its utility is confined to individuals, or can HRV data be meaningfully interpreted across people.

[00:52:12] Ken asks if the countermeasures to increase HRV, implemented in many elite sports, is like simply treating a symptom rather than looking into the underlying causes behind the HRV readings.

[00:54:05] Joe discusses how the advice for people training for marathons has changed over the years, from just going on long runs, to the advice now given on implementing short, high-intensity workouts.

[00:55:50] Joe mentions some lessons learned with working with elite athletes that can be incorporated into the lives of everyday individuals.

[00:56:38] Ken asks Joe to explain why he came work at IHMC.

[00:57:49] In regards to the exercise machine being developed at IHMC in collaboration with NASA for long-duration space missions, Joe talks about potential commercial applications of this device here on Earth.

[00:59:36] Ken talks about blood flow restriction training, which was the topic of episode 34 of STEM-Talk, and points out that the training has benefited the elite populations of both special-operations forces and athletes. He then asks if there are any carryover applications for the general population.

[01:00:54] Joe talks about his daily training regimen, diet and sleep schedule.

[01:02:15] Joe ends the interview talking about how he and his family have enjoyed the transition to Pensacola.

Links:

Joe Gomes bio

Oxytocin is an age-specific circulating hormone necessary for muscle maintenance and regeneration

Episode 83: Ken and Dawn host their first Ask Me Anything episode

It has only taken us nearly three years to get around to it, but we’re finally doing our first “Ask Me Anything” episode. It’s hard to believe, but Ken and Dawn sat down to interview their first STEM-Talk guest back in 2016. And during that time, listeners have been emailing us questions.

So, in this episode, Dawn and Ken will be asking each other questions that listeners have directed their way. The show turned out to be a lot of fun and the chairman of the double-secret selection committee who chooses all the guests who appear on STEM-talk promises not to wait three years before getting around to do another Ask Me Anything episode.

If you want to check out Ken and Dawn’s bios before you listen to today’s show, be sure to click on the links above, which will take you to their profile pages at ihmc.us. Also, links to papers mentioned in this episode can be found at the bottom of the show notes.

Show notes:

[00:02:31] Dawn asks about Ken’s time growing up in Guantanamo while his father was stationed there in the Navy.

[00:02:59] Ken points out that Dawn spent part of her time growing up on a farm and asks her what that was like.

[00:04:46] Dawn asks Ken about visiting Navy gyms when he was a kid. Ken then talks about how much he enjoyed those times, but that gyms have now become fitness centers.

[00:05:43] Ken talks about his pet peeves during his workouts.

[00:06:40] A listener writes in to say that he tried a ketogenic diet, but was never able to get over the “keto-flu.” He asks Ken to discuss this phenomenon and whether the ketogenic diet may not be for everyone.

[00:07:44] Dawn follows up on the previous question and asks Ken for his thoughts on what constitutes a good diet if someone finds that the ketogenic diet isn’t right for them.

[00:08:30] A listener asks Dawn about the APOE genotype, which has been mentioned on STEM-Talk several times. The listener asks about Dawn’s research into the genotype and what that research uncovered in regards to its relation to brain health.

[00:11:09] Ken responds to a question about his views on the effectiveness of the ketogenic diet for older and middle-aged individuals, and why he thinks the diet might be considered an anti-aging diet.

[00:14:39] A listener asks Ken to explain what the Mediterranean diet actually is, given the nebulous nature of the term. The listener goes on to write that they have never seen any noticeable weight loss benefit for people on the Mediterranean diet, unlike what the listener has seen for people adhered to the ketogenic and Paleo diets.

[00:17:16] Dawn asks Ken how he would define the ketogenic diet, given that the Mediterranean diet is so ill-defined.

[00:19:58] A listener asks Dawn if she has ever attempted a vegetarian ketogenic diet, given that Dawn is a vegetarian. In answering the question, Dawn mentions that Dom D’Agostino’s website lists resources for vegetarians and vegans who want to know more about ketogenic diets.

[00:21:08] Dawn asks Ken for his thoughts on people on the ketogenic diet drastically limiting their protein intake.

[00:22:57] Ken is asked about his thoughts on exogenous ketones, and he refers to a promising ketone ester developed by Oxford and NIH scientists.

[00:24:34] Ken explains what sarcopenia is, and why people should want to avoid it.

[00:26:17] Dawn mentions that Ken has said that the maintenance of skeletal muscle is contingent upon the balance between muscle protein synthesis and muscle breakdown. She goes on to ask what some of the factors are that drive this process in one direction or the other.

[00:27:11] Ken discusses oxytocin, which is commonly thought of as the ‘trust’ or ‘bonding’ hormone and is important in reproduction. Dawn asks about the role of oxytocin in the context of the age-related loss of muscle mass and function.

[00:28:22] Ken describes what oxytocin is and does.

[00:28:50] Dawn comments on how Ken mentioned that Conboy’s group at UC Berkeley used subcutaneous injections of oxytocin, and asks about other forms of administration, such as intranasal.

[00:29:36] Ken has received several questions along the lines of how oxytocin impacts weight loss, and gives his thoughts on the matter.

[00:31:14] Ken lists off some natural ways of increasing oxytocin.

[00:32:01] Ken closes his discussion on oxytocin with the aspects of the subject that interest him the most.

[00:33:11] Dawn mentions how Ken, and other researchers in human performance, have touted the benefits of sauna. She asks if there are any new findings in this regard.

[00:34:32] A listener asks Dawn why we never hear about free divers having the bends.

[00:35:40] Ken asks Dawn if she experienced any changes from living under water during her NASA NEEMO mission the Atlantic.

[00:38:33] Ken asks Dawn how she sees genetics and genomics fitting into undersea or other extreme environments in regards to a person’s resilience and performance.

[00:38:39] A listener mentions an interesting blog post they read by William Davis about the benefits of Lactobacillus reuteri. The listener then asks Ken for his thoughts on the probiotic and if he has ever used it.

[00:39:23] Ken discusses his favorite performance-enhancing supplements.

[00:40:58] A listener asks what kind of coffee Ken enjoys.

[00:41:31] A listener asks if Ken reads fiction or just science and technology books, and if he does read fiction, does he have a favorite author.

[00:42:26] A listener asks Dawn to clear up an error in the media about the NASA twin study, where the media mistakenly said that there were thousands of changes to Scott Kelly’s genes.

[00:43:44] Dawn explains what the current research is in regards to the brain’s lymphatic system, also known as the glymphatic system.

[00:46:15] A listener asks Ken about his favorite recent meal, and also if one should eat breakfast on days when one isn’t fasting.

[00:48:57] A listener asks Dawn if she has had a favorite guest she has interviewed on STEM-Talk.

[00:49:44] Ken talks about his appointment to the newly formed National Security Commission on Artificial Intelligence and his role on the commission.

[00:50:43] Dawn wraps up by asking Ken about the house he and his wife Nancy are building in Wyoming.

Links:

NASA Twins Study

Oxytocin reduces caloric intake in men

Oxytocin increases heart rate variability in humans at rest

Cardiovascular and other health benefits of sauna bathing

Coffee consumption and health

[00:10:59] A recent study (2017) showed that whole eggs promoted a greater amount of muscle protein synthesis than egg whites, suggesting that there may be benefits to the extra nutrients found in the egg yolk.

Episode 82: Stu Phillips discusses the importance of dietary protein and its role in muscle

Our guest today Dr. Stuart Phillips, a professor of kinesiology at McMaster University in Ontario, Canada, who is best known for his research into muscle health and the benefits of dietary protein.

Stu is the director of the McMaster Physical Activity Centre of Excellence, a state-of-the-art exercise research and training center. It is devoted to studying and improving the health and well-being of older adults as well as people with chronic diseases and disabilities.

In addition to his work in the kinesiology department at McMaster, Stu is adjunct professor in the university’s School of Medicine. He is a fellow of the American College of Sports Medicine and the American College of Nutrition. He received the New Investigator Award from the Canadian Institutes for Health Research, the Ontario Premier’s Research Excellence Award, and the Young Investigator Award from Canadian Society for Exercise Physiology.

In today’s interview we discuss:

[00:08:19] Dawn introduces the importance of dietary protein and its role in muscle health, and tissue regeneration more generally, which makes it one of the only macro nutrients we need on a daily basis.

[00:12:53] Why Stu believes the recommended daily allowance for protein is too low.

[00:14:06] The differences between animal and plant-based protein.

[00:16:31] The phenomenon of muscle synthesis (anabolism) and catabolism.

[00:17:54] Highlights of the recent findings coming out of Kevin Tipton’s group which indicates that the dose-response relationship may depend on the amount of muscle tissue that was recruited during exercise, with the ingestion of 40 g protein further increasing muscle protein.

[00:20:43]A 2013 paper from Stu’s group titled, “Dose-dependent responses of myofibrillar protein synthesis with beef ingestion are enhanced with resistance exercise in middle-aged men.”

[00:27:52] Stu’s thoughts on the recommendation of pre-sleep protein feeding.

[00:37:52] An overview of the Physical Activity Centre of Excellence, a state-of-the-art, exercise research and training lab at McMaster.

[00:43:37] The importance of maintaining healthy functional muscle mass and function as we move into middle and later life.

[00:46:56] Stu’s paper, “Muscle Disuse as a Pivotal Problem in Sarcopenia-Related Muscle Loss and Dysfunction.”

[00:50:25] The need to add more protein to our diets as we get older, which is something that Dr. Valter Longo discussed on episode 64 of STEM-Talk.

[00:56:24 How fasting affects muscle protein turnover, which were topics covered in episode 7 of STEM-Talk, an interview with Mark Mattson, and episode 79, which was an interview with Satchin Panda, author of the “The Circadian Code.”

[00:57:32] Whether a ketogenic diet with sufficient protein would in any way be detrimental to muscle mass.

[01:05:47] Stu’s thoughts on a study that was conducted on behalf of the American College of Sports Medicine that found supplementation with HMB failed to enhance body composition to a greater extent than a placebo.

Show notes

[0:02:51] Stu talks about being born in the UK but growing up in Canada.

[00:03:09] Dawn asks about Stu’s passions for all kinds of sports as a kid.

[00:03:27] Stu recalls his high school science teacher, who was responsible for getting him interested in biology and chemistry.

[00:03:44] Dawn asks what led Stu to choose McMaster University after high school.

[00:04:19] Ken brings up that Stu was captain of the Ruby team his senior year, and while it looked as though he was headed to a great season, things didn’t turn out as planned. He asks how that season led to Stu’s decision to focus on nutritional biochemistry.

[00:05:16] Stu explains how he ended up at Waterloo University to work on a doctorate in physiology.

[00:06:01] Dawn asks Stu why he headed off to Texas after graduating from Waterloo.

[00:06:36] Dawn asks if it is true that after three years in Texas, Stu moved back to Canada to get married.

[00:07:18] Stu talks about why he went back to McMasters to study protein, exercise, and muscle synthetic versus catabolic dynamics, among other things.

[00:08:19] Dawn asks how Stu first became interested in the process by which protein plays a role in regenerating muscle, making it one of the only macro nutrients we need on a daily basis, and to give listeners an overview on the importance of dietary protein.

[00:09:49] Dawn asks Stu how much of his work has focused on muscle- protein turnover and if changes in muscle-protein turnover directly correlate with changes in muscle growth.

[00:10:59] Ken mentions that many protein-intervention studies use supplementation in the form of whey, which has a clear benefit from a muscle standpoint given its high leucine content and convenience. He goes on to mention, however, that some researchers are starting to look at interventions with whole food protein. A recent study (2017) showed that whole eggs promoted a greater amount of muscle protein synthesis than egg whites, suggesting that there may be benefits to the extra nutrients found in the egg yolk.Understanding this, Ken asks if it is possible that by taking an isolated supplement like whey, we are missing out on a spectrum of other nutrients found in protein rich whole foods?

[00:12:53] Stu explains why he believes that the recommended daily allowance for protein is too low.

[00:14:06] Dawn mentions that she is a vegetarian, and by that token has to be more creative about making sure she gets enough protein. She asks Stu to explain the differences between animal and plant-based protein.

[00:15:20] Ken asks if it might be helpful for vegans or vegetarians to supplement with essential amino acids, provided that they are vegan approved.

[00:16:31] Dawn asks Stu to elaborate on the phenomenon of muscle synthesis and catabolism, which are like a sinusoidal wave going from anabolism to catabolism. Over a 24-hour period, one may see more anabolism, then have a net improvement in muscle mass, and vice versa.

[00:17:54] The currently accepted amount of protein required to achieve maximal stimulation of myofibrillar protein synthesis (MPS) following resistance exercise is 20–25 g. Ken asks Stu to discuss the recent findings coming out of Kevin Tipton’s group which indicates that the dose-response relationship may depend on the amount of muscle tissue that was recruited during exercise, with the ingestion of 40 g protein further increasing muscle protein.

[00:20:43] Dawn explains that aging impairs the sensitivity of skeletal muscle to anabolic stimuli, such as amino acids and resistance exercise. She goes on to bring up a 2013 paper from Stu’s group which reported that, in the context of resistance exercise, “it appears that the MPS “machinery” in older muscles is less responsive to low and modest doses of protein. The key finding from this study being that in middle-aged men, ingestion of beef promotes a dose–response relation for myofibrillar MPS, with the greatest response occurring with ingestion of 170 g of beef … roughly 6 oz containing 36 g of protein.

[00:22:45] Ken asks if given the leucine oxidation responses Stu reported, does it seem reasonable that approximately 170 g of beef is the maximally effective dose, after which additional protein would fail to increase MPS.

[00:24:29] Stu discusses the issue of “protein timing” in relation to a bout of resistance training and total protein intake over the course of the day.

[00:27:52] Multiple studies coming from Van Loon’s lab suggesting that 40 g of protein ingested before sleep can be beneficial for muscle protein synthesis, especially in older individuals.While consuming protein before bed may provide some benefits, it may also be detrimental from a circadian rhythm perspective. Forty g of protein equates to 7 eggs or 5 cups of milk or a substantial steak. Given the importance of sleep to anabolic and other processes, Ken asks Stu for his thoughts on the recommendation of pre-sleep protein feeding.

[00:30:15] Ken asks if the observed benefit of pre-sleep protein could be driven more by topping up of the day’s total protein consumption, or if the timing of protein right before bed matters?

[00:31:57] Ken asks for Stu’s thoughts on a 2017 paper published by Robert Wolfe in the Journal of the International Society of Sports Medicine, which concluded that the claim that the consumption of dietary BCAAs stimulates muscle protein synthesis or produces an anabolic response in humans is unwarranted.

[00:37:52] Stu gives a brief overview of the Physical Activity Centre of Excellence, more popularly known as the PACE lab, a state-of-the-art, exercise research and training center at McMaster.

[00:40:04] Ken brings up that loss of muscle mass, strength, and quality starts earlier in life than many realize, especially in more sedentary individuals, while also accelerating as people age. He asks if there are any warning signs people need to look out for.

[00:43:37] Dawn asks why is it so important to maintain healthy functional muscle mass and function as we move into middle and later life.

[00:43:37] Dawn asks if sarcopenia progresses the same way in westernized vs non-westernized populations?

[00:46:56]Stu talks about one of his papers published in the Journal of Frailty and Aging titled, “Muscle Disuse as a Pivotal Problem in Sarcopenia-Related Muscle Loss and Dysfunction.”

[00:48:34] Stu talks about anabolic resistance and whether there is compelling evidence to support low-protein intake for optimal healthspan and longevity.

[00:50:25] Stu talks about the need to add more protein to our diets as we get older, which is something that Dr. Valter Longo discussed on episode 64 of STEM-Talk.

[00:54:33] Stu talks about the myth that too much protein creates kidney damage.

[00:56:24] Mark Mattson discussed intermittent fasting in Episode 7 of STEM-Talk. More recently, in episode 79, Satchin Panda of the Salk Institute talked about time-restricting eating. Stu gives his thoughts on how fasting affects muscle protein turnover.

[00:57:32] Ken asks if a ketogenic diet with sufficient protein would in any way be detrimental to muscle mass.

[01:02:13] Dawn brings up that physical inactivity impairs insulin sensitivity and that it is exacerbated with aging. A paper Stu and his colleagues produced examined the impact of two weeks of acute inactivity and recovery on glycemic control, and integrated rates of muscle protein synthesis, in older men and women.

[01:04:00] Stu discusses why most of the research on protein has been in relation to males.

[01:05:47] Stu discusses a study that was conducted on behalf of the American College of Sports Medicine that found supplementation with HMB failed to enhance body composition to a greater extent than placebo.

[01:10:13] Dawn asks if Stu had a $20-mllion budget and could undertake any research project without limitation, what would it be and why?

[01:13:05] Dawn ends the interview by mentioning that Stu had to give up rugby in his 40s. She asks what his exercise routine looks like now in his middle age, and if he still plays any sports.

Links:

Stuart Phillips McMaster faculty page

McMaster Physical Activity Centre of Excellence

Charles Brenner University of Iowa profile

Episode 81: Charles Brenner discusses NR and the benefits of boosting NAD as we age

Our guest today is Dr. Charles Brenner, the Roy J. Carver Chair of Biochemistry at the University of Iowa.

Charles is one of the world’s leading experts on nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide, commonly referred to as NAD, which is an essential molecule found in every living cell. In 2004, he discovered the nicotinamide riboside kinase pathway, which leads to a special form of vitamin B3.

We talk to Charles about his research into NAD and why he believes supplementation with NR could help people age better. In addition to his work at the University of Iowa, he is also the chief scientific advisor for ChromaDex, which markets the NR supplement Tru Niagen.

Toward the end of our interview, Charles talks about dozens of exciting new papers and studies that are on the horizon. One of those papers – Maternal Nicotinamide Riboside Enhances Postpartum Weight Loss, Juvenile Offspring Development, and Neurogenesis of Adult Offspring– was published in Cell Reports on the same day as our interview with Charles went live.

Also in today’s interview, we discuss:

[00:06:29] How Charles became the first cancer biology graduate student in the biology department at Stanford University.
[00:07:51] Charles’ research into nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD) during his time on the faculty at Thomas Jefferson University.
[00:09:15] Charles’ discovery that nicotinamide riboside (NR) is a precursor of NAD.
[00:19:47] Why Charles doesn’t use the term “anti-aging.”
[00:25:52] The importance of nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide phosphate (NADPH) and its role as the central regulator of reactive oxygen species toxicity.
[00:34:56] The circadian rhythms of NAD and the potential benefit of diurnal dosing.
[00:38:45] Why skeletal muscle is one of the most sensitive target tissues for the anti-aging effects of NMN.
[00:45:42] How the benefits of a ketogenic diet, intermittent fasting, time restricted eating could be related to NAD.
[00:47:02] A recent human trial conducted by the University of Colorado that found Niagen increased NAD+ by 60 percent in healthy middle-aged and older adults after just six weeks.
[00:49:19] The optimal dose of NR for humans.

Show notes:

[00:03:06] Charles talks about growing up as a kid who dreamed about becoming either a comedian or rabbi.

[00:03:26] Charles describes his success on the math team in high school and how he also enjoyed playing tennis and running cross-country.

[00:03:43] Charles reflects on his decision to attend Wesleyan University.

[00:04:09] Although Charles decided to major in ecology, he found out upon arriving at Wesleyan that they did not have an ecology department.

[00:05:05] Dawn mentions that after graduating with honors in biology, Charles traveled across the country to work in the Bay Area. She asks him what he did.

[00:06:29] Charles talks about when and why he became interested in cancer research, and how he was the first cancer biology graduate student in the biology department at Stanford University.

[00:07:51] Dawn asks about the work Charles did from 1996 to 2003 on nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD) during his time on the faculty at Thomas Jefferson University.

[00:09:15] Ken brings up Charles’ research at Dartmouth, asking about his discovery that nicotinamide riboside (NR) is a precursor of NAD.

[00:12:35] NAD is a coenzyme found in all living cells. It serves both as a critical coenzyme for enzymes that fuel reduction-oxidation reactions, carrying electrons from one reaction to another, and as a co-substrate for other enzymes. Charles gives an overview of the research into NAD and its relationship to overall health and age-related diseases.

[00:19:47] Dawn asks Charles why he doesn’t use the term “anti-aging.”

[00:20:54] Charles discusses how Verdin and numerous other investigators have reported that NADcontent declines with age in multiple organs, such as pancreas, adipose tissue, skeletal muscle, liver, skin, and brain, as well has his own hypothesis.

[00:25:52] Charles gives an overview of nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide phosphate (NADPH), which is particularly important because of its role as the central regulator of reactive oxygen species toxicity.

[00:29:19] Dawn asks about experiments Charles’ lab conducted on mice that looked at obesity and type-2 diabetes.

[00:33:08] Dawn asks if there is an easy way someone can determine if their NAD levels are dysregulated.

[00:34:56] Ken asks Charles about the circadian rhythms of NAD, and the potential benefit of twice a day dosing.

[00:36:02] Charles discusses why one shouldn’t simply supplement directly with NMN, despite the findings of a 2016 Cell Metabolism paper.

[00:38:45] According to the Cell Metabolism study (linked in the previous question), the authors suggest that skeletal muscle is one of the most sensitive target tissues for the anti-aging effects of NMN. Charles discusses his thoughts on this.

[00:40:42] Some people are going the route of intravenous NAD infusions. Since it is believed that cells can’t take up NAD directly, NAD IV clinics springing up around the country seem somewhat unlikely to be effective. Charles discusses the possible reasons for the anecdotal evidence of reported benefits.

[00:45:42] Charles discusses the ketogenic diet, intermittent fasting, time restricted eating and how the benefits of these approaches could be related to NAD.

[00:47:02] Dawn inquires about the recent human trial conducted by the University of Colorado that found Niagen increased NAD+ by 60 percent in healthy middle-aged and older adults after just six weeks.

[00:48:14] Dawn asks if it is possible to deplete methyl groups by taking high doses of a B3.

[00:49:19] Ken asks what the evidence suggests the optimal dose of NR is for humans.

[00:52:16] Charles gives an overview, and his thoughts, on research reported in 2017 coming from Joshua Rabinowitz’s lab at Princeton, which challenged the long-held view that the mitochondrial inner membrane is impermeable to pyridine nucleotides and suggested the existence of an unrecognized mammalian NAD (or NADH) transporter.

[00:53:13] Charles give his thoughts on the 2018 Liu paper in Cell Metabolism, also from Rabinowitz’s lab,which seems to show that in mice oral NR is only converted to NAD by the liver with no other tissue is seeing enough NR (or presumably NMN) to reach adequate cytosolic levels. Thus, unless increasing hepatic NAD provides benefit, this study would lead one to believe that oral ingestion of NR is of little value.

[00:57:19] Ken asks what the future is for additional human trials with NAD and also what additional papers about nicotinamide riboside are on the horizon. (One of those papers – Maternal Nicotinamide Riboside Enhances Postpartum Weight Loss, Juvenile Offspring Development, and Neurogenesis of Adult Offspring– was published in Cell Reports on the same day as our interview with Charles went live.)

[01:00:52] Charles, as a fitness enthusiast, discusses what his exercise regime looks like.

Links:

Brenner Lab

Charles Brenner Wikipedia page

Chromadex website

Tru Niagen website